Dumb Questions...

[CR4ZYHORSE]

Firstly thanks to those who contribute to a fantastic resource. We have found hugely contradictory advice and information and wish we had landed on the forum sooner.

We have a six month old panther (George) who seems perfectly happy but wonder if his behaviour is an indication that we could improve things any..

He is in a custom home which is glass with a well vented top (4ft high, 4ft wide and 3ft deep) and currently we have lots of branches and walkways for him but only artificial plants at present.

We have a heating mat under and the basking lamp at one end which maintains a constant gradient. Temperature is perfect as far as we can establish and the advice on here supports that.
Living in the UK we feel maintaining the environment is better than constantly fiddling to match the awful weather over here
We have a drip but mist him two or three times daily too and the humidity throughout is ideal..

So the things we wonder about.
When we open up to mist him and feed him, he is really curious and whilst he loves the misting in particular, he readily climbs onto our hands and runs up to sit on our shoulder (or head)- he would probably sit there all day if we let him.
Should we encourage this or are there risks we're missing? Is it a bad idea to let him roam around the house occasionally too?

He also loves a shower -is this a bad idea?
We protect him from the force of the water with a mat which drips onto him and again he shows every sign of being happy - and we use the time to clean and dress his home...

Our biggest issue is his sleep pattern.
He climbs up to his bedtime branch at around 3pm and sleeps there until around 7am when his lights activate.
He seems happy but should he be more active? - is this suggestive of somthing needing adjusting?

Thanks in advance for any advice

J Peter

 

[hpc1979]

Dumb Question

There's no such thing as a dumb question so keep asking them.

 

[camimom]

As stated, no dumb questions.

FIrst thing- remove that heat mat.

you dont need it, and chams cannot tell when things get too hot, and he can burn himself.

Second thing- showers are great. if he enjoys them, then go for it.

third- if he likes to be handled take advantage of it. many chams dont.

and finally- sleeping

he may be going to sleep so early, if its darker out.

try adding some more lights, or moving his cage by a window, so he can see the light.

 

[justjumpit621]

Also, do you have a UVB light for him? and what supplements do you use?

 

[CR4ZYHORSE]

As stated, no dumb questions.

FIrst thing- remove that heat mat.

you dont need it, and chams cannot tell when things get too hot, and he can burn himself.

Second thing- showers are great. if he enjoys them, then go for it.

third- if he likes to be handled take advantage of it. many chams dont.

and finally- sleeping

he may be going to sleep so early, if its darker out.

try adding some more lights, or moving his cage by a window, so he can see the light.

Many thanks and also to justjumpit (hope thats not your real name).

I am sure the light is a great catch - he is going into the darker area to sleep.
I'll add light (moving him isn't an option due to the size of his home which dominates our lounge).

The heating mat is a little less obvious so please help me here.
When I designed his viv and added a large rock over the mat so that the heat is transferred and dissipated so that he cant burn in case of a failure.
The viv has a heat gradient - the mat and to a lesser extent, his basking lamp maintaining 80 through the day (ambient) with the basking area directly under the lamp touching 90.
Towards the"dark side" ambient is about 62 and drops to 56/57 at night.

Without the mat the temperature will be too low as the lamp is not a great heat source to protect him as he climbs towards it.
So I guess the question is - is it better to up the specification of the basking lamp so that it is my sole heat source, or continue with a mat??

We are ploughing through the forum checking that our supplements meet the advice given but at first glance we seem ok.
We are dusting alternate days and gut loading. (I say we but my wife has taken over on the feeding front and fusses over him more than she does me )

I really value the help guys so please can you suggest how to move forward with the mat issue.

J Peter

 

[Elizadolots]

Hi!

80 as an ambient is probably too warm. A good temperature gradient would be 90 at the top, 70-75 at the bottom, and everything in between. The bottom really should be the coolest part of the enclosure. They regulate their body temperatures by going up when they need to get warmer and going down when they need to cool off.

 

[camimom]

There really is no point for a heat mat at all.
chameleons live in trees, and get their heat from above, not below. He wont ever use it for warmth.

If you remove it and the temp drops, just up the wattege of the basking bulb you use.

what supplements are you using?

what do you gutload with?

 

[CR4ZYHORSE]

There really is no point for a heat mat at all.
chameleons live in trees, and get their heat from above, not below. He wont ever use it for warmth.

If you remove it and the temp drops, just up the wattege of the basking bulb you use.

what supplements are you using?

what do you gutload with?

Wow - I feel like I'm getting a private consultation - thanks!!

I'll switch off the mat and up the lamp.

We're using calcidust (with D3) and gut loading is varied including dandelion leaves, carrot, spinach etc

I have also been wondering about adding a reptifogger to supplement the misting and drip system when we are away overnight. Any thoughts about the value of these?



Thanks

J Peter

 

[DanSB]

If it was my enclosure I would remove the heating pad from the bottom for the reasons stated but would not up the the wattage of the basking light, instead I would add another light or two of lower wattage to maintain a higher temperature on the top.

With such a huge enclosure a single basking light might leave the gradient too lopsided.

I would have the single higher wattage basking light with the warm basking area and two lower wattage that maintain an ambient temperature at the top while retaining the the vertical gradient so the bottom is coolest.

I have never tried this but I haven't ever had an enclosure this big in poor weather conditions so keep in mind this is just a suggestion to try to meet the ideal temperature gradients.

 

[CR4ZYHORSE]

If it was my enclosure I would remove the heating pad from the bottom for the reasons stated but would not up the the wattage of the basking light, instead I would add another light or two of lower wattage to maintain a higher temperature on the top.

With such a huge enclosure a single basking light might leave the gradient too lopsided.

I would have the single higher wattage basking light with the warm basking area and two lower wattage that maintain an ambient temperature at the top while retaining the the vertical gradient so the bottom is coolest.

I have never tried this but I haven't ever had an enclosure this big in poor weather conditions so keep in mind this is just a suggestion to try to meet the ideal temperature gradients.

This is great....

I was thinking that the advice to increase the lighting and also raise the heat source so that is from above, would be best achieved in this way.

I'm gonna be a busy boy

Many thanks...

 

[pssh]

As for the shower, a lot of people aim the shower head at the wall so that the spray bounces off the wall and onto the chameleon/plant that he is on. Make sure the water that hits him is lukewarm to skin temp. You don't want it too warm since he is cold blooded. I also would recommend adding a lamp or two (of a lower wattage) instead of raising the wattage on the bulb and getting rid of the heat mat.

What is the brand of your supplement? (Or could you post the analysis of what is in it?) Usually a plain calcium, a calcium with D3, and a multivitamin are recommended. The actual schedule that you should use them varies by brand because of what is actually in them. Calcium without D3 should be used at almost every feeding though. The calcium with D3 can be used anywhere from almost every feeding to only about twice a month depending on brand and amount of D3 in the supplement (which is why I am wondering what brand it is/the analysis it has.) A multivitamin is usually recommend to be used 2 times a month.

 

[justjumpit621]

Wow - I feel like I'm getting a private consultation - thanks!!

I'll switch off the mat and up the lamp.

We're using calcidust (with D3) and gut loading is varied including dandelion leaves, carrot, spinach etc

I have also been wondering about adding a reptifogger to supplement the misting and drip system when we are away overnight. Any thoughts about the value of these?



Thanks

J Peter

Don't use spinach, it is too high in oxilates that bind to calcium. You will need a plain phosphorus free calcium supplement and a multivitamin supplement to go with the D3. Unlike other reptiles, chameleons don't get D3 every feeding. Plain calcium every feeding, D3 1-2 times a month (depending on how much natural sun time he can get outside), and a multivitamin 1-2 times a month. How many times you give the D3 and multivitamin depend on the nutrition properties of your gutload and how much natural, unfiltered sun he gets.

A lot of people are also starting to use Repashy all-in-one with good results, I personally stick to the 3 supplement schedule but both will work.

 

[DanSB]

This is great....

I was thinking that the advice to increase the lighting and also raise the heat source so that is from above, would be best achieved in this way.

I'm gonna be a busy boy

Many thanks...

My concern with one higher wattage basking light to get such a big area would be that it would get too hot in a small part of the enclosure to keep the remaining at a reasonable level.

I would use clamp style lights that you can move up and down until you hit an ideal gradient. Invest in a good thermometer!

If it was me I would make the temperatures as follows (In Degrees Fahrenheit I'm American so Celsius is foreign to me but easy enough to convert with Google) hottest basking spot 85 to 90, keep the remaining part of the top 80 to 85, the middle of the cage 75 to 80 and the bottom whatever it sits at but no less than 70.

At night it should be around 65 if that is not possible because it is too cold where you are yo just found a use for your heat pad! At night heat DOES emanate from the ground and not the sun. But make sure it doesn't get too warm in the enclosure at night as a nightly cool down is important some people recommend 60 to 65 as the perfect night time range and I would say that 70 should be the warmest allowed.

I will point out this is all from reading recommendations from trusted people as I don't keep panthers yet but thermal regulation is just as important with what I keep so the concepts are the same.

 

[pssh]

Spinach can be used but it's best if it isn't used as a main gutload. Use it more sparingly than some of the other gutload items. Good items include mustard greens, dandelion greens, collard greens, endive, escarole, sweet potatoes, sweet peppers, yams, squash, carrots, berries, apples, oranges, etc. A good dry gutload is a good idea too.

 

[CR4ZYHORSE]

As for the shower, a lot of people aim the shower head at the wall so that the spray bounces off the wall and onto the chameleon/plant that he is on. Make sure the water that hits him is lukewarm to skin temp. You don't want it too warm since he is cold blooded. I also would recommend adding a lamp or two (of a lower wattage) instead of raising the wattage on the bulb and getting rid of the heat mat.

What is the brand of your supplement? (Or could you post the analysis of what is in it?) Usually a plain calcium, a calcium with D3, and a multivitamin are recommended. The actual schedule that you should use them varies by brand because of what is actually in them. Calcium without D3 should be used at almost every feeding though. The calcium with D3 can be used anywhere from almost every feeding to only about twice a month depending on brand and amount of D3 in the supplement (which is why I am wondering what brand it is/the analysis it has.) A multivitamin is usually recommend to be used 2 times a month.

Hi
It's Calci Dust which we're using twice weekly because of the D3 concern.

We have a high spec UVB lamp for basking so hope it's just "belt and braces"

Can you please elaborate on the multivitamin use




J Peter

 

[camimom]

the calcium iwth d3 should be twice a month! now twice a week
you need a plain calcium with no d3 for every feeding.
and a multivitamin for twice a month.

 

[pssh]

I cant find a guaranteed analysis online. Can you look on the bottle for the D3 amount? It should be presented as something like 12,345 IU/kg.

Depending on the amount of D3 in the product, it might be fine to use it twice a week. The multivitamin twice a month is just to help supplement the feeders. If you gutload really well with lots of different veggies/fruits it's not as important (but still a good idea!) it fills the gaps that gutloading misses.

 

[Lathelia]

If you want more info about gutloading visit sandrachameleon's blog: https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/nutritional-information/