About 3 months ago, we bought a Veiled Chameleon from our local pet store. She was sooo cute. As tiny as our pinky finger, but still, an amazing new pet. We had an old ferret cage that we covered with mesh screen and rigged branches in there for her. It turned out pretty awesome when we were done. She's been doing great for the past three months, eating regularly, digesting food the way she's supposed to, and was generally quite active. We would feed her the smallest crickets we could find and we also gave her fruit flies as a treat about once a day. So today, she ate as normal, maxing out on crickets and fruit flies. About two hours ago, i heard a strange noise from her cage. When I went over to look inside, i was her laying at the bottom, like she had just fallen off of a branch. Now I have read that Chameleons can not take a broken bone of any sort but am not sure if she has a broken bone. Now she is as brown as dirt and laying on her little side. She will not move, barely breathes, and her eyes only open once in a while. We tried putting her on some damp paper towels in a dish incase she was dehydrated but that didn't do very much for her. Every once in a while, half of her color will come back in the lower portion of her body, but it only comes back for a little while. We are presuming she's pretty much gone, but if ANYONE knows anything that might help, please please please, let me know! She hadn't been acting quite right before she fell, but nothing that I can really explain about. She had been hanging upside down right before she fell and it's like her legs just gave out on her. I am beside myself as I love her SOOO much!!!! Could this be a parasite she got from a cricket that made her sick? Did she just lose her balance? She's only 3 months old and already cheated out of a great life. So frustrated.... so if anyone has anything please, respond! Thank you and everyone, cherish your little Chameleons, you never know when they'll be gone!
Dying Chameleon? Why?
- Thread starter mandajo8
- Start date
Will Hayward
New Member
Sounds like the fall has done her in. The cage sounds large, too large for a three month old chameleon, and thus the drop must have been significant. I believe that the only option you would have at this point is to seek out veterinarian aid.
The members on this forum can question your habits and care etc, but if you had no troubles up until two hours ago, it would most likely not be useful to you at this moment in time. All the conclusions you are jumping to are symptoms that would show slowly over time, and it would be evident what the trouble was before this fall happened.
Without more details, I don't believe there is anything else that members could help you with. Please take and post many detailed photos, and seek (chameleon experienced) veterinarian assistance.
The members on this forum can question your habits and care etc, but if you had no troubles up until two hours ago, it would most likely not be useful to you at this moment in time. All the conclusions you are jumping to are symptoms that would show slowly over time, and it would be evident what the trouble was before this fall happened.
Without more details, I don't believe there is anything else that members could help you with. Please take and post many detailed photos, and seek (chameleon experienced) veterinarian assistance.
marxous
New Member
Have you considered a vet??? you'll probobally have to begin feeding her, the best idea is most likely water, mixed with very little salt, sugar, and maybe some calcium or vitamins, then maybe something for some calories... i dont know much but take a look in other sections regarding sick chams and i'm sure you;ll find something!
Brad Ramsey
Retired Moderator
I agree with Will and don't know what to tell you that could help at this point.
If you can't get her to a vet till morning I would keep her quiet warm and comfortable, perhaps in a cardboard box with a branch in case she becomes able to cling to something. No wet paper towel (IMO) that's just going to make her cold.
-Brad
If you can't get her to a vet till morning I would keep her quiet warm and comfortable, perhaps in a cardboard box with a branch in case she becomes able to cling to something. No wet paper towel (IMO) that's just going to make her cold.
-Brad
Wow, thank you so much for the quickness in the responses. It means a lot, really. I just took two pictures with my Digi and am putting them on now. Right now, half or her body is its normal color and the other half is black. For the past hour, she's been laying on her side, barely breathing/moving and then all of a sudden she tried to stand up on her own and half or her color has come back. We have been using an eye dropper to try and get her to drink a little water, which has proved to be successfull. Also, remember that yesterday I noticed that her little tongue looked a different color....green almost, when it's usually a skin color. Today it looks clear and black. So not sure if that could be a sign of something either. If she makes it throug the night will FOR SURE try and get her to our vet, but we are also in the middle of a snow storm so that may cause a few problems in getting there quick enough. So honestly, you are my only hope at this point, and I am willing to do ANYTHING to try and save our little girl.
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Jordan
New Member
From the pictures it looks as though she may have Metabolic Bone Disease (M.B.D.). You can try to take her to the vet in the morning. This may help to locate a VET.
If it is MBD keep in mind that any curved bones are permanent. Again it looks like that from the picture. Sad but this is a common story.
If it is MBD keep in mind that any curved bones are permanent. Again it looks like that from the picture. Sad but this is a common story.
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Will Hayward
New Member
The blurry photos show symptoms that would be consistent with an extremely traumatic injury, and thus a corresponding bruise, hence the colour. In addition, either there are broken bones, or there is warping due to MBD (Metabolic Bone Disease). Gently push on a leg bone, and then gently put pressure on the casque on the head, are they extremely ridged, or soft and near pliable. Unfortunately, if so, this is not irreversible, the cure is to only halt it.
If you went to the vet, an Xray would most likely be done. From there they would decide to go one of two ways, a long painful route to recovery (but not rehabilitation) or... Well at this point, it would be more than a miracle.
If you went to the vet, an Xray would most likely be done. From there they would decide to go one of two ways, a long painful route to recovery (but not rehabilitation) or... Well at this point, it would be more than a miracle.
Brad Ramsey
Retired Moderator
From looking at the pictures I would tend to agree with Jordan. Her limbs do look warped and if what we are seeing is actually the way they are the disease is rather advanced.
It is impossible at this point , however, to say with any credible accuracy that this is in fact the problem.
If she makes it through the night and the vet confirms MBD tomorrow, the good news is that it is (in many cases) treatable. As Jordan pointed out though, her deformities will probably be permanent.
-Brad
It is impossible at this point , however, to say with any credible accuracy that this is in fact the problem.
If she makes it through the night and the vet confirms MBD tomorrow, the good news is that it is (in many cases) treatable. As Jordan pointed out though, her deformities will probably be permanent.
-Brad
Will Hayward
New Member
Consider offering, electrolytes (Exo Terra Brand if available, if not, clear gatoraide at half strength has proven useful), liquid calcium (use for pregnant women, usually vanilla scented), and bug juice. (www.adcham.com for recipe).
If it is MDB, in addition to a fall... The injuries, both the trauma, and from prolonged lack of calcium is advanced and leaves little hope. Our best wishes go out to you.
(curl the tail downwards btw. )
If it is MDB, in addition to a fall... The injuries, both the trauma, and from prolonged lack of calcium is advanced and leaves little hope. Our best wishes go out to you.
(curl the tail downwards btw. )
Okay well called our Emergency Animal hospital, but they don't work with Exotics. They still tried to be extremely helpful in the small ways they could. They directed me to the Chicago Emergency Animal Hospital for Exotics and found very little understanding. All i was pretty much told from them was, she's dying. Which, I had already wondered about. Well while on the phone, I realized, that she was already gone. Her body had become totally limp and her color had totally drained.
Wow....
Thanks for the help everyone.....I wish I knew why this happened. I don't think it was M.B.D. as we had the appropriate UV lighting for her and gut loaded our crickets with calcium, in addition to dusting them once or twice a week before feeding her. She did act strange until yesterday so I just really don't know. Maybe it was. I think I need to just accept that our lil girl Twist, is gone. Again, thanks for the help everyone. Everything that everyone said was appreciated. Hopefully if we decide to get another Chameleon, this one will get to live to it's full life span. Best wishes to everyone....
Good night.
Wow....
Thanks for the help everyone.....I wish I knew why this happened. I don't think it was M.B.D. as we had the appropriate UV lighting for her and gut loaded our crickets with calcium, in addition to dusting them once or twice a week before feeding her. She did act strange until yesterday so I just really don't know. Maybe it was. I think I need to just accept that our lil girl Twist, is gone. Again, thanks for the help everyone. Everything that everyone said was appreciated. Hopefully if we decide to get another Chameleon, this one will get to live to it's full life span. Best wishes to everyone....
Good night.
Jordan
New Member
I am sorry for your lose. Things like this can be hard.
If you did enjoy having her as a pet I would not let this stop you from getting another one. These are cool animals to have around. Believe me I have been in the position you where in tonight along with a lot of other memebers on here and it sucks. This place is a whealth of information. If it does not got it on the site it probably has a link some where to get there. You can get ideas to make your chameleon happy, healthy and more enjoyable for you to have as a pet.
MBD if that is what it was can be pretty complex. There are alot of roads that can lead to this type of situation. Knowledge is about the best way to prevent it.
If you did enjoy having her as a pet I would not let this stop you from getting another one. These are cool animals to have around. Believe me I have been in the position you where in tonight along with a lot of other memebers on here and it sucks. This place is a whealth of information. If it does not got it on the site it probably has a link some where to get there. You can get ideas to make your chameleon happy, healthy and more enjoyable for you to have as a pet.
MBD if that is what it was can be pretty complex. There are alot of roads that can lead to this type of situation. Knowledge is about the best way to prevent it.
roo_71
New Member
I am pretty certain that cham has MBD judging by the limbs and the spine looks “off” as well. It also looks past the point of no return too and will most likely die today or in the next couple. I don’t think a vet can do anything at this point other then euthanize it IMO.
Did you supplement her feeders with calcium and vitamins? Did you gut load your crickets? Did you have a UV bulb?
-roo
Did you supplement her feeders with calcium and vitamins? Did you gut load your crickets? Did you have a UV bulb?
-roo
Roo....she already passed.
I'm so sorry about your baby. It sounds like she was really young when you got her; it's hard to keep tiny babies properly without lots of experience. Maybe if you decide on another chameleon, you can find a breeder that will have one 3 months old or so, and it'll have a good head start.
Again, I'm so sorry for your loss....
I'm so sorry about your baby. It sounds like she was really young when you got her; it's hard to keep tiny babies properly without lots of experience. Maybe if you decide on another chameleon, you can find a breeder that will have one 3 months old or so, and it'll have a good head start.
Again, I'm so sorry for your loss....
roo_71
New Member
Yeah, I see that ... I was a bit late submitting my response.
I have a feeling that the cham's food wasnt getting supplimented and/or no UV source was being offered - probably no gutload for the crickets. That bowed leg sure looks like MBD.
... and if that's the case this cham died b/c of it.
-roo
Roo,
I put in my last post, when i said that she died, I told of her UV lighting, which is full spectrum, uva and uvb light. we gutloaded her crickets with Flukers Calcium in addition to giving water pouches and the Flukers orange water and food tablets. We dusted her crickets about twice a week with calcium and we also had a Multivitamin but just recently ran out of the vitamin. Before we got our little girl, we did a ton of research. Bought the appropriate books and did hours of online research. I am very partial to forums myself as they tend to give the best information. I'd rather get it from someone who has a Cham then go to a vet that just knows about them. Anyway, yes our girl did have everything I had ever read that she needed. However, I do have another question that might help make sense of things. Not too long ago, we purchased a Night-Glo basking light for her. Could this be a problem? In reading other stories last night, i read a story about a different kind of chameleon and the owner had a red light setup. In the responses people had noted that they don't see the color spectrum, so could this blue light have done some harm? we have had it for I'd say a little over a month. She seemed to be acting find, but then again, they act so strange sometimes its hard to tell. Thanks again everyone for all the help and the knowledge!
I put in my last post, when i said that she died, I told of her UV lighting, which is full spectrum, uva and uvb light. we gutloaded her crickets with Flukers Calcium in addition to giving water pouches and the Flukers orange water and food tablets. We dusted her crickets about twice a week with calcium and we also had a Multivitamin but just recently ran out of the vitamin. Before we got our little girl, we did a ton of research. Bought the appropriate books and did hours of online research. I am very partial to forums myself as they tend to give the best information. I'd rather get it from someone who has a Cham then go to a vet that just knows about them. Anyway, yes our girl did have everything I had ever read that she needed. However, I do have another question that might help make sense of things. Not too long ago, we purchased a Night-Glo basking light for her. Could this be a problem? In reading other stories last night, i read a story about a different kind of chameleon and the owner had a red light setup. In the responses people had noted that they don't see the color spectrum, so could this blue light have done some harm? we have had it for I'd say a little over a month. She seemed to be acting find, but then again, they act so strange sometimes its hard to tell. Thanks again everyone for all the help and the knowledge!
Jordan
New Member
At night you really do not need to worry about keeping the temperatures up so no night light is really needed. No this would not harm them or at least not seriously.
Really there are three different types of supplements you can use with chameleons. One is a multivitamin. Most use every other week to a month. Just good to throw in to make sure they are getting traces of everything. The next is a calcium/D3 supplement that is phosphorus free. D3 is what they are naturally getting when exposed to UVb. The lights that most keepers use are just not intense enough for them to manufacture all of their own vitamin D. Most keepers use this any where from 1-3 times a week. The last one is just a straight calcium supplement. Now the insect feeders you will commonly run across like a cricket have a high phosphorus level. This why you do not want a supplement that contains phosphorus. The calcium can be used on a more frequent basis to level out the calciumhosphorus ratio of the feeders. Now in a chameleon's diet you want to strive to achieve a 2:1 ratio. Calcium 2 and phosphorus is 1. If phosphorus levels get to high they can quickly deplete calcium.
Another thing to consider is how close she could get to the UVb source. As I said you need to supplement D3 to ensure they get it but chameleons will still make their own. Depending on the cage they usually have to get in the 6-12" range for it to be effective. Any barrier between the chameleon and the light will reduce the output. If there is glass or plastic between the two it will block out up to 99.9% of UVb.
Now it is possible that your chameleon had some sort of organ issue that was impeding one of many things from happening right inside the body that could have lead to this. I tried to give you some ideas as to what to look back over.
Really there are three different types of supplements you can use with chameleons. One is a multivitamin. Most use every other week to a month. Just good to throw in to make sure they are getting traces of everything. The next is a calcium/D3 supplement that is phosphorus free. D3 is what they are naturally getting when exposed to UVb. The lights that most keepers use are just not intense enough for them to manufacture all of their own vitamin D. Most keepers use this any where from 1-3 times a week. The last one is just a straight calcium supplement. Now the insect feeders you will commonly run across like a cricket have a high phosphorus level. This why you do not want a supplement that contains phosphorus. The calcium can be used on a more frequent basis to level out the calcium
hosphorus ratio of the feeders. Now in a chameleon's diet you want to strive to achieve a 2:1 ratio. Calcium 2 and phosphorus is 1. If phosphorus levels get to high they can quickly deplete calcium. Another thing to consider is how close she could get to the UVb source. As I said you need to supplement D3 to ensure they get it but chameleons will still make their own. Depending on the cage they usually have to get in the 6-12" range for it to be effective. Any barrier between the chameleon and the light will reduce the output. If there is glass or plastic between the two it will block out up to 99.9% of UVb.
Now it is possible that your chameleon had some sort of organ issue that was impeding one of many things from happening right inside the body that could have lead to this. I tried to give you some ideas as to what to look back over.
Ok well I looked on our Calcium bottle that we dusted the crickets with and it is phosphorus free and contains no D3. The Flukers High Calcium gut load that we use, does contain D3. As for her lighting, she did have enough branches in her cage to be able to thermoregulate, as well as get close enough to her UVA/UVB lighting. I dont know if this helps or not, but I went over everything you wrote. Thanks!!!! Will still keep investigating tho!
joseofsa
Member
roo is just saying chams dont die out of the blue. when a cham dies it is the fault of the owner and no other reason. plus im sure roo is tired of the constant posting of noob questions and posts of why is he/she dead? i know i am and i am fairly new.
if its not mbd like you say then she managed to break her spine pretty bad and thus trying to save money converting a ferret cage did not pay off.
jose
if its not mbd like you say then she managed to break her spine pretty bad and thus trying to save money converting a ferret cage did not pay off.
jose
Jordan
New Member
Vitamin D3 is created when the skin is exposed to UVb and beings to synthesis 7-dehydrocholestrol. This is bound to a serum protien and transported to the liver. In the liver it undergoes two transformations. First in to 25-hydroxycholecalciferol and then into 1,25-dihydroxycholecalciferol. 1,25-dihydroxycholecalciferol allows for calcium to be absorbed through the duodem. It basically acts as lubrication for the celluar movement. Now without this chemical calcium can still be absorbed through the small intestine but it can not do it in substainal enough amounts to support the bodies needs.
Now with an adult you can supplement D3 pretty sparingly but with a growing chameleon the need is great. The size they can grow in a year is pretty amazing to watch and requires large amounts of calcium to do so. I suspect that not supplementing D3 is the key factor.
Now with an adult you can supplement D3 pretty sparingly but with a growing chameleon the need is great. The size they can grow in a year is pretty amazing to watch and requires large amounts of calcium to do so. I suspect that not supplementing D3 is the key factor.
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