early mbd???

[msgizmo]

No deformations I've never seen him fall off any vines or the cage. I am going to get the calcium without the d3 and dust on every feeding from now until i can get him in to see a vet. He is a lot less active than he used to be, might that be a result of not enough space?? I use romain lettuce and flukers to gut load the crickets. Hopefully I'm just being paranoid and can get him better soon. Thanks for all ur replies I'll keep u guys posted on his condition I'll post pix as soon as I figure that out. He also doesn't grab his limbs.

At least here locally it is nearly impossible to find calcium only dusting powder. I've been working with one pet shop for three weeks trying to get plain calcium powder. Friday they had every dusting powder there was EXCEPT just plain calcium. I told them to send them all back! Finally I had to print out some info sheets and take them to the manager. They said they'd have some here next Thursday for sure. ZooMed's ReptiCal has the lowest ratio of D3 to calcium I could find.

 

[Mario Vermunt]

i am not in favor of letting them grow slow, any growth they miss will never totally made up in the length they can reach.
For me it has been the slow growers in fact that stay behind, eat less as they should do and develop mdb.

one thing people tend to forget if you keep them to cold (absolute temp depends on the species preference ofcourse) mdb is easily developed also, because the metabolism for D3 is not working (as well as should be) at to low temps.

 

[kinyonga]

I have been growing them slowly for many years. Almost every female I have had in the last 10 years has lived to be over 6 years of age and the males even older. None of them has had any signs of MBD or other health issues for that matter.

Pushing a chameleon by power feeding it can lead to prolapses, constipation and MBD. (This same power feeding in turtles and tortoises causes deformed shells.)

Here's an article talking about growth...
"These chameleons are not use to a fecundity of food or water. They are the masters of survival on less. The result of the increased availability of food is rapid growth and a quicker and higher reproductive response. The pushing of these chameleons to quickly grow and reproduce has taken a toll on the species as a whole. Females in the wild typically produce clutches of eggs that number in the 20's. In captivity females have been reported to produce as high as 80+ eggs. "...and...."If a reptile is pushed to grow quickly, the necessary vitamins and minerals may not be available or assimilated for proper bone growth and formation. "...
http://www.chameleonnews.com/03MarKalischVeiled.html

I don't consider temperatures in the low 80's to be cold. Of course keeping the temperatures really low constantly will have an affect on them.

 

[Gdawg79]

pics of max







This is Maxameleon (Max for short)......I finally found a good exotic reptile vet near my house and I am taking him in tomorrow. Since my last post his trembling has gotten better he is starting to climb around his new 18x18x36 enclosure. He eats a little less than usual...not much just more spread out than he used to. he used to grab at least 7-10 crickets in like 8 minutes. Now he only gets like 4-7 in an hour. I also ordered a slimline linear uvb light instead of the spiral one that I had. What do u guys think mbd or not? He doesn't grab his limbs and does seem a little weak. I have dusted with calcium and d3 every day starting last week and I'm getting calcium without d3 today. I guess I just want some positive reinforcements. I need to get him better right away...i hope he will be back to normal as soon as the vet can provide me with an accurate diagnosis. Thank u guys for all of your help. I am glad all of you take pride in caring for your beautiful creatures as I do

 

[Psychodrake]

He looks great to me, but I'm no expert. If you're worried just do what people say and give him calcium w/o vits and D3 every day, give him calc. w/ D3 two or three times a month and multivit two or three times a month. This is the usual advice I see on the subject of supplementation. Hopefully he hasn't got MBD at all, I don't see any deformities, he could just be doing the Chameleon leaf walk thing.

 

[Carlton]

i am not in favor of letting them grow slow, any growth they miss will never totally made up in the length they can reach.

Bigger/longer isn't always better. If the cham has healthy bone it's overall size shouldn't really matter unless you are trying to select for size.

 

[Carlton]

I have been keeping chameleons for over 20 years and I do not give my hatchling veileds or panthers extra D3...they get it twice a month lightly dusted on the insects. (Rep-cal calcium/D3) The ones that I've held back have lived long healthy lives with me. I do however grow them at a steady pace and not in a rush like some people do.

Agree. I've never given hatchlings MORE D3. I choose to gutload their feeders very well, give them new Reptisuns or basking outdoors instead. I've never had a cham develop MBD.

IMHO I get a bit confused about these descriptions of "trembling and shaking". It is very subjective and hard to be specific. And, if someone gets panicky and starts loading on the calcium and D3 they can end up with worse problems if there was no deficiency to begin with. Young chams often walk very hesitantly, swaying and twitchy to imitate a leaf. Young chams are going to fall occasionally simply through inexperience. I guess my suggestion would be to be cautious, observant, and not jump to conclusions. MBD can be treated and halted if it does come up.

 

[Gdawg79]

My wife thinks I'm really paranoid but I know them trembling is not normal. It started getting better last week since I started dusting everyday w/d3. I am going today to buy the jurassi-cal without d3 and phoshporous. I hope to have him back to normal in a couple of weeks depending on wat the vet says. What is the deal with the spiral uvb lights not being good??

 

[Carlton]

My wife thinks I'm really paranoid but I know them trembling is not normal. It started getting better last week since I started dusting everyday w/d3. I am going today to buy the jurassi-cal without d3 and phoshporous. I hope to have him back to normal in a couple of weeks depending on wat the vet says. What is the deal with the spiral uvb lights not being good??

Some of the older versions of CF UV bulbs caused eye damage in chams. Supposedly they have changed them so this isn't an issue now. I've never used the CF bulbs. Like my linear tube ReptiSuns just fine.

 

[Gdawg79]

back from the vet

hello all, first of all let me just say that the support and info here at chamforums is amazing!! Thanx to everyone for their opinions and support. YOU GUYZ ROCK!!! Max has recieved a clean bill of health. She did notice a little trembling but nothing extreme like my paranoid ass was thinking. She said that he might have a slight calcium imbalance so she gave him a calcium shot and supplied me with 30 dayz worth. She also gave him a de-worming shot just incase he was developing parasites. I gotta tell u guys the way they grabbed him and handled him was like nothing I've ever seen or done before. I have gone lengths to get him out of his enclosure without stressing him one bit. (taking the top of the screen cage off and letting him come out on his own) She grabbed him stretched his arms turned him around like it was no big deal, but at least he's alright. So now I have a month of supplementing him with liquid calcium to do. For the first time he almost seemed relieved to climb on to me when we were leaving She also did mention the thing about how linear uvb light is much better than the spiral one....so that's now on the way here. So thanx again for all ur guys comments.... U GUYZ ROCK!!!!!!!!!

 

[Carlton]

So now I have a month of supplementing him with liquid calcium to do.

30 days of oral calcium? Seems like a lot in addition to the normal dusting you would do. Calcium can be overdosed too.

 

[Gdawg79]

Thats what I thought so maybe i'll only dust 1 a week until the 30 days are up....I have started to noticed that the trembling is very minimal now. I also think that 30 days of oral calcium is very stressful, but the vet I went to specializes in reptiles and exotic animals.