Eating Problems

[Filosofine]

Hi guys.

My Panther is about 7 mounts old now. When he was about 3 mounts, I discovered that he had a problem eating. I haven't seen it before, because he was to shy to eat in front of me. But I of course took him to the vet and he was to treated with antibiotics for a mouth inflammation. But it didn't work. Hi shoots his tongue out but he just misses. And it dosn't matter if the food is 4 og 20 cm. away. Finally he gives up. I think it hurts his confidence, because sometimes he just hides afterwords.

I have read in here that it could be because of the vitamins, so I just wanted to hear, what is the propper way to give vitamins then?

I use vitamins, calcium and just started to add organic Spirulina powder in the mix, every day.
I now use Repashy's Calcium + , + extra calcium (no D3 or phosphorus).
Before, when he was little I used T-Rex Chameleon Dust + calcium. Changed after he's tongue got bad.

In advance, thank you very much.

Best regards

Jeanette
/Denmark

 

[Juancito]

Have you looked at the care sheet for panthers?

 

[Filosofine]

Juancito:
Thank you very much. Very helpful

Although i'm a little confused...

"Calcium nearly every feeding
multivitamin once every 2 weeks
and calcium with D3 once every 2 weeks."

Does this mean that there must not be D3 in the Multivitamin?
Or if there is D3 in the Multivitamin, does it then have to be calcium with D3?


I find it difficult to find the right amount of D3 in the products, do You maybe know if there is a reliable guide somewhere for that?

Best regards
Jeanette

 

[Ventari]

https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/panther/

cal with D3 only two times a month but also dust feeders with cal every feeding these are 2 different products. Where as repashy has a cal+ LoD that you can look into with every feeding. "not an endorsement"

hope this helps

 

[Filosofine]

https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/panther/

cal with D3 only two times a month but also dust feeders with cal every feeding these are 2 different products. Where as repashy has a cal+ LoD that you can look into with every feeding. "not an endorsement"

hope this helps

Thank you very much for your reply
So You mean if I use Repashy Calcium +, I can use it every day and then Calcium with D3 twice a month?

What if I use a Multivitamin with D3, Like ExoTerras?

And how about Spirulina?

 

[Lovereps]

Hi Jeanette, there are often debates about exactly how much is too much or too little of D3 and multivitamins.
Unfortunately, there have not been any scientific studies done to determine the exact supplement or nutrient requirements of any chameleon species.
Realistically, there is still much unknown about the exact nutritional requirements of humans, which has already been the subject of much study.

It is suspected, but not known for certain, that chameleons can only use certain types of vitamin A and not other types of vitamin A.

The one thing about supplements that most people agree on is that both too much and too little are bad.

I think that most knowledgeable people would also agree that an individual chameleon may have more of a need for-- or less of a tolerance for --any vitamin or mineral.

Nutrition problems--particularly calcium deficiency--are a common cause of tongue problems, as are injuries and infections.

Vitamin A and vitamin D3 are 2 vitamins which are known to be problematic to chams if given too much or too little of.

"Calcium nearly every feeding
multivitamin once every 2 weeks
and calcium with D3 once every 2 weeks." is a good guideline for many chameleon species (1/2 as often is recommended for montane species such as Jackson's)


The most successful cham keepers ensure that the feeder insects are fed a very nutritious diet, so that they provide their chameleons with the most nutrition possible.
They also feed their chams a variety of feeder insects rather than just 1 or 2 insects. Silkworms, hornworms, isopods, phoenix worms (black soldier fly larvae), Dubias or other roaches all make good additions to the diet.
These chamkeepers may also use supplements but not as a substitute for good feeder nutrition and variety.

Sandrachameleon is one very successful keeper of chams for many years.
Here is some good info that she collected about the vitamin and mineral content of a number of supplements:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/174-whats-supplements-brand.html

She also wrote about supplements in general:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/65-supplements.html

Here is another of her posts about feeders and nutrition:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition-gutloading.html

Different brands of supplements contain different amounts of various vitamins and minerals---which complicates things.

One needs to be very careful that a calcium supplement contains only calcium

Plain calcium means calcium without any D3 AND without any phosphorus

Vitamin D3 is only necessary for chameleons kept who do not receive hours of unfiltered outdoor sunlight every week.

I don't believe that calcium with D3 needs to be given 2x a month to indoor chams if a multivitamin with D3 is used--but again, different supplements contain different amounts.

The Exoterra calcium contains phosphorus and other vitamins/minerals, so I would not use it for a chameleon.

Exo Terra multivitamin contains 22,000 IU/kg of D3 ---2x the D3 that Zoo Med Repti Calcium with D3 contains (10,390 IU/kg)---and Rep-Cal Calcium +D contains 400,000 IU/kg of D3.


Repashy products generally have a good reputation but some people have reported serious problems after using them daily with chameleons.

Interestingly, today another cham keeper posted about his cham's tongue problems seemingly having been caused by the Exo Terra Calcium:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/over-supplementing-warning-112257/

I hope that this has not confused you further but there is no precise answer, since many factors influence how much of which supplements will benefit your chameleon.

It is possible that your chameleon's tongue problem is the result of scarring from the original infection or it might be that a change in the supplements and/or feeders will fix the problem.

 

[Filosofine]

Lovereps:
Thank you so much for taking the time to write me. That's really nice of You
Regarding the ExoTerra Multivitamin, i'm not quite sure it's the same one. The one I have bought (but not yet used) is this one: http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/powder_multi_vitamin.php
I can't see any phosphorus and the D3 is different.
It seems that even though I try to buy the best vitamins, it's just not good enough What would You recommend I use?

 

[Filosofine]

After reading all the links You so kindly posted, I think i'm even more confused now, if possible. I really don't know what to go for

 

[Lovereps]

I'm so very sorry for causing you more confusion.

I am confident that you will do everything possible to keep your chameleon healthy because you care enough to ask good questions.

What I should have said in fewer words is this:

Chameleon nutrition is not an exact science and you need to be careful not to give too many or too few vitamins.
Be cautious and read the label when choosing supplements, so you don't unknowingly give too much of any vitamin--particularly vitamins D3 and A.

The best way to ensure that your chameleon is getting all the nutrients it needs is this:

Feed your feeder insects a very nutritious diet, so that they provide your cham with good nutrition.

Feed a variety of feeder insects --not just 1 or 2 types of insects.

Use supplements to ensure no nutrient is missing from your cham's diet but not as a substitute for good feeder nutrition and variety.




The Exo Terra multivitamin should be OK to use 2x every month.
I don't think you need to use calcium with D3, since the Exo Terra multivitamin has D3 in it.

Plain calcium should be exactly that--calcium without anything else
like these:

http://www.joshsfrogs.com/rep-cal-calcium-without-vit-d3.html
or
http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog...ium-and-vitamins/-/repashy-supercal-nod-16oz/
or
http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog...ins/-/zoo-med-repti-calcium-without-d3--8-oz/

Those guidelines of plain calcium nearly every feeding
calcium with D3 2x a month and Multivitamin 2x a month, are good guidelines to help prevent vitamin deficiencies or overdoses.

 

[Filosofine]

Lovereps: Please don't apologize, i'm so very happy You're taking the time to write me
And thank you very much for explaining it to me. I will try that immediately

I have been using vitamins every day, so maybe it's my fault he's tongue doesn't work. I didn't know I really hope it will help. And if not, then I hope he will learn to live with it and become better to eat without his tongue. It's heartbreaking to see him hunt, or try to.

But again, thank you very much. The chameleons and I, really appreciate it