Egg laying substrate for outdoor enclosure

[Dr O]

hi all--

i've never had any issues with making up substrates for my panthers and carpets until i put everyone in the outdoor enclosure.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/my-new-goc-85088/

whereas washed play sand and organic soil used to be the brunt of what i was using, now that i have my LLL cages suspended in the air, the laying containers are getting pretty heavy (mainly due to the sand), and all that holds it up is the flimsy white PVC bottom. i haven't had any collapses yet, but that's only b/c i'm trying other, lighter substrates and they're not working very well at all. and the reason they're not working well is due to the automatic waterings and guaranteed summer Florida thunderstorms which dump a ton of water. before they were outdoors, if i mixed in some vermiculite/peat/coconut coir it worked well and they would lay in it just fine. but now with all of the water weird things happen. the vermiculite floats, the soil turns to mud and the water can hardly drain out of the drain holes (which i've overdrilled as much as possible), and coir just kind of holds the water in place for a while rather than letting it drain quickly. yesterday i had a nesting female who was halfway down and after a storm i checked on her and she was almost floating up out of the hole that she dug due to all of the water. i don't want to drown my chams, and i don't want the bottoms falling out of the cages!

it seems like sand works the best by far (as the majority of the mix) since it doesn't soak up the water and drains very quickly, but it's just too heavy for hanging cages (and kind of a pain to dig the eggs back up of all substrates, imo). so here are my options—

-get great advice for a lighter blend from someone here that will allow good drainage

-build or buy some sort of jack that will temporarily support the base of the cage while a heavier, traditional sand mix is in there

-create some sort of tension/bungee system that would hold a board under the PVC and strap up to the top of the cage, helping to prevent the bottom falling out.

-replacing the PVC with something else (or thicker PVC); dunno where i could buy something that i can cut to size (LLL does a great job with their perfect fit!)


i'm open to any ideas, and appreciate the help. anyone?

p.s.—as i'm typing this, i realize that i have enough extra cages that i could double or triple the PVC bottoms, but it's still a lot of weight for the bottom aluminum framing to hold.

 

[jastate09]

You could set up shelves for your females instead of hanging them.

 

[Dez]

Would it be feasible to make a separate laying cage that is on a shelf or table? partly covered out of the brunt of the rain?

I usually out the pot in the cage like in my vid.. but lately I been moving girls to a separate container when I see they have eggs. --- just a tote bin filled up with dirt with a screen cover in it. I did this so they would have a larger place to dig in.

 

[pssh]

Do you feel comfortable using very small laying containers so that you can tell when they are going to lay and them moving them to a larger laying bin? You could also try putting a layer of rocks on the bottom of the bin for drainage. Maybe put a layer of acrylic mesh over it between the substrate so that they don't try to dig into the rocks?

 

[Texas Panther Man]

I think the easiest solution would be to cut some plywood bottoms for the girls cages in the appropriate size and ditch the pvc since the cages are suspended. I know with fire ants in Florida & also here in Texas I like the idea of a suspended cage if the chams are going to be outside 24/7. Tell us what route you decide to go and how it worked out for you....

 

[SpartyTessy]

Instead of having to hang the cages just use vegetable oil to create a barrier that the ants will not be able to penetrate. Maybe use some kind of tray's that are large enough for the cage to sit in and then secure the cages on top of the tray's that have the vegetable oil. Then you will have no ant issues at all.

 

[Red Island]

Separate laying bin works for me. Finicky females may not like the smaller laying sites youre limited to with hanging screen cage setups. Using a large bin or garbage works great for me. If you setup a separate bin for laying you can use good dirt, customize the privacy needs and let the female pick her sweet spot.

 

[cricketkilla]

Separate laying bin works for me. Finicky females may not like the smaller laying sites youre limited to with hanging screen cage setups. Using a large bin or garbage works great for me. If you setup a separate bin for laying you can use good dirt, customize the privacy needs and let the female pick her sweet spot.

I like this guys idea! Give them choices of where the best spot is.

 

[Dr O]

I think the easiest solution would be to cut some plywood bottoms for the girls cages in the appropriate size and ditch the pvc since the cages are suspended. I know with fire ants in Florida & also here in Texas I like the idea of a suspended cage if the chams are going to be outside 24/7. Tell us what route you decide to go and how it worked out for you....

now that i like--cheap, easy, replaceable, and strong. and doesn't involve changing my entire setup which you recognize is as it is for some specific reasons.

my girls have no problems laying in their cages--i specifically designed the female cages with "swingable" artificial plants knowing that i would be putting containers in there. back when i had fewer chams, i did take them out for a separate laying area. but i kid you not, i've had 5 laying females in the past week alone, 4 of which i've gotten the eggs from as of last night. they don't mind laying, luckily it's not a privacy/stress issue. the issue is i don't like how much the PVC bends when i'm putting the container in!

i do have two girls (not currently laying) that are more shy than the rest; i just loosely wrap their cages in some outdoor shade green shade material and they're happy with that.

 

[Dr O]

the one thing it that i will definitely need to do is paint down the plywood with something as i don't want splinters in cham tongues. even if i sanded it, eventually the moisture would still raise the grain again.