eggs found in viv, help may be needed!

[Benton1576]

Hi,

I just found 2 eggs in my viv, just laid at the bottom. The problem I have is I have 2 gravid females, 1 that i think is nearly ready to lay and the other produced a clutch fairly recently and is still gravid. Anyway, Any ideas why i found 2 misformed eggs just laid at the bottom? Ive got substrate in there for them to dig in and lay and never had this problem before so im quite worried.

My husbandry is spot on, like i said, this is the first time ive ever seen this.

 

[kinyonga]

First of all...I don't recommend keeping two panther chameleons in the same cage. It may cause problems with their health....unless the cage is huge. Although dropping the eggs may mean nothing, it might be due to the stress of another chameleon being in the cage with her.

You said you have substrate in the cage for her to dig in...how deep is it? So you have it covering the whole floor of the cage? What is it?

 

[Benton1576]

I have 2 females together in a very large viv. they tolerate each other just fine. The substrate is a mix of play sand and coco humus which is around 30 cm at the deepest points ( i give them plenty of digging sites )

Like i said, this has never happened before!

 

[kinyonga]

The stress can be "silent" (not noticed). Usually one or both will suffer health/egglaying issues from what I've seen.

 

[Benton1576]

Ok, point taken, but ive never had this happen in the past, theyve always been together and had no egglaying issues in the past. So they can just drop a couple of eggs without being eggbound? That is my main concern. I think if they were stressed they would fight with each other, plus they cuddle up together when sleeping, basking etc. I wouldnt do that if i didnt like someone!

 

[Benton1576]

Is it possible for a female to accidentally lay a couple of eggs whilst having a poo? i just noticed that there was a poo in the viv and some on 1 of the eggs! meybe she has a lot of eggs and a couple just popped out, hence why theyre misformed as theyre not ready to lay yet. Is that possible?

 

[kinyonga]

If they weren't ready to lay IMHO they would still be in her reproductive system and not in the area where the feces would be..but they could be infertile.

 

[Benton1576]

theyre definately infertile, i can tell by the colour of them and by the fact they are mis shapen and soft. Im just clutching at straws here trying to figure out whats going on before i book the day off work and make an emergency trip to the vets!! they seem in good health and ive not notices anything out of the ordinary apart from this. Im just concerned as i havnt seen it happen before and never heard of it happening to anyone. Ive been breeding for a while now so im no stranger to their needs and behavior changes. Any thoughts on what could be happening? Do you think i have reason to be concerned?

 

[sandrachameleon]

That you keep them together in the same cages suggests your husbandry is NOT "spot on"

Yes, they can drop a couple eggs (could be the one that recently laid eggs, but she failed to lay them all at that time) and its okay. Usually, though, this is not a good sign. Something is amiss, either the laying site or something else.

 

[Benton1576]

That you keep them together in the same cages suggests your husbandry is NOT "spot on"

Yes, they can drop a couple eggs (could be the one that recently laid eggs, but she failed to lay them all at that time) and its okay. Usually, though, this is not a good sign. Something is amiss, either the laying site or something else.

Ok, well ive been informed that its not a bad thing, it can happen sometimes and then they go on to lay a good clutch so im not worried.

As for not keeping them together, Im sorry to say but the guy i deal with over here in Germany has been breeding chameleons for over 30 years and he was the 1 told me they could be kept together. I think you guys in America/Canada do things a lot differently than we do over here. I am more inclined to listen to the man with 30+ years experience when it comes to husbandry and pairing of my chameleons. The fact i havnt had any breeding issues this far suggests to me that i am doing things correcly, I just got spooked as ive not seen this happen before and at 22.30 last night i found those 2 eggs so i couldnt rush round to see my friend at that time of night so i asked on here. I think from now on ill just trust my own judgement and not bother to ask seeing as everytime i ask a question my husbandry comes into question. Thanks.

 

[stevie]

jep US and europe its a differend ball game , if your kams dont show any stress of being housed toghether than its fine however "just loosing 2 eggs " thats not correct my german friend, keep an eye on her

 

[pssh]

Of course your husbandry comes into question when something goes wrong! Most problems with chameleons are caused by husbandry error!

While you haven't had problems until now, you officially have reason to be concerned. Just because it didn't happen before doesn't mean it can't happen. This could be the first sign of very serious problems that may be because of them being housed together. Not all chameleons can be kept together and most should not be.

Do you want to risk an animal because you don't think this could be the animals showing you that it isn't working? It's so easy to just separate them. If an animal dies, you will be left to wonder if you could have saved it by just separating them. Why not just do it?

 

[eric thompson]

I have 2 females together in a very large viv. they tolerate each other just fine. The substrate is a mix of play sand and coco humus which is around 30 cm at the deepest points ( i give them plenty of digging sites )

Like i said, this has never happened before!

I mixed that coco humus in my play sand & my girl's wont use it. Try just play sand.

 

[Benton1576]

Hi, dont get me wrong, im not saying that the advise on here is incorrect and that i dont take your answers into consideration. Even as an experienced breeder theres still things to be learnt like this occasion.

I have seperated the females now and will be monitoring them in case this happens again.

Things over here are done differently because we have different climate, humidity etc but your advise is still taken on board as i know there are many beatiful chamelons in America and some very experienced keepers and breeders alike. I just dont accept that my husbandry is incorrect as im doing exactly the same as a 30+ experienced breeder over here. He is a very good friend of mine and i breed for him so hes not likely to give me incorrect information as he makes a lot of money from me as i sell him my chams at half price, sometimes less! Its the easiest way to be sure i can sell my stock without the worry of vetting potential buyers. Theres no way i would sell a Panther to anyone who didnt have at least some experience with chameleons.

 

[Benton1576]

I mixed that coco humus in my play sand & my girl's wont use it. Try just play sand.

I found that was the case too when i used a 50/50 mix so i now use 75% sand and moisten it to a degree that it doesnt crumble if i make a hole in it myself. Its not in there all the time, i add it when i know the chams are about ready to start digging. sometimes a couple of weeks prior to laying but usually when i see them go down in the branches. And i never use the same substrate, i use a fresh mix everytime to be sure im not harbouring any bacteria whatsoever, or at least as little as possible. I use a clinical approach to breeding and so far its been successful.