Eggs Hatching, is THIS NORMAL???

[lbesok]

Today my boyfriend called to say that something funny was hatching out of our FIRST expected panther eggs that were laid at the end of March. We had been anticipating them to hatch, as they had shrunken in size.... (notice the size difference in the two eggs) For the entire incubation, they were placed in a drawer in the house at temps around the mid 70's while the humidity remained sufficient (moisture always collected on the top of the container). Here are two quick, crappy cell phone photos, apparently their seems to be movement from inside.....

Though this is my first time, I have a very strong assumption this isn't normal, and I would like to get some feedback from you guys. Have you ever seen anything like this before? Should I expect the entire clutch to turn out this way? What exactly is popping out of my eggs, and why is one bloody? Is their any specific course of action that should be taken with them? Thanks in advance for any and all replies pertaining to this issue.

 

[Justin Carl]

Do they not have any pigment?
I've seen this once before.
A breeder showed me photos of his.
They died shortly after hatching.

Edit* Your incubation temps are very warm.

 

[lbesok]

Dude it's not even a Chameleon coming out that I'm aware of (again I apologise for the camera quality). More of like some sort of MASS?? Jared says that that part isn't the chameleon, but their is movement from the egg, as far as the goo ball getting bigger?!?! I'll try to post one additional picture shortly.

*Edit: Sorry Justin, I meant to say mid 70's lol

 

[SoCaliSon]

How wierd? Could it be that temps in the 80's were a little high?

Edit: Never mind I caught your edit.

 

[Nicodemayo]

Mid 80's is way high. Mid/low 70's are more appropriate. Keep us posted, id like to see what this ends up being.

 

[lbesok]

Sorry guys, earlier I was pre-occupied at work. The eggs were just incubated at the ambient room temp of the house which was around the mid 70's

 

[Vibrant Chameleons]

Hi Liz,

I think your eggs were over hydrated and they swelled up prematurely. That sucks

 

[Cainschams]

I didnt have any masses that actually made it out of the egg like that. Although I had eggs sweat and then do nothing. A week later i took a couple that did that and cut them open to find what looks like the masses in your pics. The eggs were definatly dead when I cut them. They were starting to brown and shrivle. I never did see an embryo or baby when cutting them open just the yolk I am guessing.

 

[lbesok]

Thanks for your responses.

Hi Liz,
I think your eggs were over hydrated and they swelled up prematurely. That sucks

Hello! What leads you to believe that swelled prematurely due to hydration? Because it has only been 6mo incubation time? They were HUGE and then began to shrink. Also they were never observed sweating. I'm just a bit worried about my incubation technique now, as I have a drawer full of eggs besides this clutch

I didn't have any masses that actually made it out of the egg like that. Although I had eggs sweat and then do nothing. A week later i took a couple that did that and cut them open to find what looks like the masses in your pics. The eggs were defiantly dead when I cut them. They were starting to brown and shrivel. I never did see an embryo or baby when cutting them open just the yolk I am guessing.

The odd thing about these eggs, is that they have never sweat that I'm aware of, and Jared says "they look dry not wet" lol It's just interesting because unlike your situation they have movement. With this particular clutch you are referring to did any of them make it, or were they ALL like that?

 

[Eric Adrignola]

Looks like the eggs are rupturing. Check you humidity - eggs will rupture if too moist. Or, could have just been a weak shell. Pull that stuff out and see what stage it is.

 

[lbesok]

Looks like the eggs are rupturing. Check you humidity - eggs will rupture if too moist. Or, could have just been a weak shell. Pull that stuff out and see what stage it is.

When they rupture is it possible that they are still alive? Would pulling out the goo kill them or I wonder again are they are already done for? Unfortunately/fortunately w/e we are heading to the Bahamas for a long weekend tomorrow, with only a pet sitter visiting once a day for the chameleons. I suppose I could give the pet sitter specific instructions to deal with this if he must.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Hey Liz,

It looks as though they popped too soon, and making the effort to cut one completely open, as suggested, will give you some idea of where they stand on the development curve. The embryo is likely alive, but will not survive the popping that has already occured, so you are not killing an otherwise good egg. Unless you recently made some radical change in moisture or other care, they likely are not popping because of a moisture issue. Good eggs are capable of growing quite large on their own and not popping.

If could be a problem with development, with too thin a shell. Nothing you can do about that now. This may sound crazy, but could a cricket or roach have gotten to them ? They will hole an egg. Otherwise, I wouldn't change anything at this point. I am one who buries all eggs, just like Mom. Nothing to be gained by having them on the surface, and there are several things to lose, such as greater humidity swings, especially drying out quickly if something goes wrong, insect predation, damage by nosy chameleon keepers, etc. When buried, you can still clear away the medium to peek at them once every month or two. Hope the rest make it.

 

[chris]

we had an egg like that in one of our clutches it was the first one to start shrinking. it was from one of our female's first clutch the hatch rate ended up being pretty low but about one third hatched. the rest of her clutches that were incubated the same way moisture temp had a much better hatch rate.

 

[lbesok]

It looks as though they popped too soon, and making the effort to cut one completely open, as suggested, will give you some idea of where they stand on the development curve. The embryo is likely alive, but will not survive the popping that has already occured, so you are not killing an otherwise good egg. Unless you recently made some radical change in moisture or other care, they likely are not popping because of a moisture issue. Good eggs are capable of growing quite large on their own and not popping.

If could be a problem with development, with too thin a shell. Nothing you can do about that now. This may sound crazy, but could a cricket or roach have gotten to them ? They will hole an egg. Otherwise, I wouldn't change anything at this point. I am one who buries all eggs, just like Mom. Nothing to be gained by having them on the surface, and there are several things to lose, such as greater humidity swings, especially drying out quickly if something goes wrong, insect predation, damage by nosy chameleon keepers, etc. When buried, you can still clear away the medium to peek at them once every month or two. Hope the rest make it.

Thanks for your insight and reassurance. When we get home I'll get Jared to check what stage those embryos are at. I agree that this is likely NOT a moisture issue, since none has been added since March
We were inspired to try four different vairables with this clutch; in-ground, above ground, clustered and separated. As you can see the two eggs in question are above ground and spaced out. We did choose to incubate the clutches laid after this one underground. For all I know some underground may have also burst, try not to mess with them. Something to check out.

we had an egg like that in one of our clutches it was the first one to start shrinking. it was from one of our female's first clutch the hatch rate ended up being pretty low but about one third hatched. the rest of her clutches that were incubated the same way moisture temp had a much better hatch rate.

Chris, thanks for sharing your experiences. This was in fact Sarabi's first clutch, and I have heard that sometimes the hatch rate can be lower the first time. So did all the ones that didn't hatch explode, or did you have some that just rotted away and not hatch?

 

[chris]

i think about a third hatched normally a third rotted and a third were undeveloped / deformed

 

[Nucci4701]

I cut the eggs today and found that one egg had an embryo that was about half way developed (had a face, eyes, and tongue. but no legs or tail) and the other seemed to be a fully developed baby chameleon. There was none of the thick puss-like substance inside the eggs but there was a thin, watery liquid surrounding the embryos. I don't think excessive moisture was the problem because the vermiculite was actually very dry. Unfortunately, my camera is unable to focus close enough to the embryos to get a quality picture worthy of posting. Also the eggs had a very leathery texture. I don't no if that is normal but the remaining eggs seem to have a more solid shell than those that busted open.

 

[Nucci4701]

This morning I noticed that one of the healthier eggs was leaking the thin yellow fluid that I found inside of the problem eggs. The hole it was leaking from was very small and it did not seem like there was a chameleon trying to make its way out of it. I panicked, thinking the thick puss could have started the same way, and cut open the egg. There was a well developed baby w/yolk sack attached but it is not moving. Does this mean it is dead or just premature in need of extra care? I'd really appreciate any help you may be able to give me. Thank you

 

[lbesok]

I've read that once the egg slits, the chameleon may still feed off of the sack and take a couple of days still to emerge.
Usually when the egg is slit, no yellow fluid comes out correct? This would be abnormal? Most likely what would this fluid be???
Sorry for so many questions but this is our first time and it's all so new to us.