Emergency and no vets available!

[Rose]

Please, I would appreciate any advice and/or guidance.

I have a male panther chameleon (named Wolfie) and he is just over 6mths old. I had him housed in an ExoTerra cylindrical terrarium with a mercury vapor light. As per our breeder's (who is away!) recommendations, I misted about 4x per day. His crickets are gutloaded and dusted one or twice per week with Repcal calcium with D3 and Stickytongue Farm multivitamins.

Even though I misted regularly, I think he was dehydrated! He is lethargic, won't eat, and is staying at the bottom of his closure. Yesterday, his eyes were dark and sunken.

I have been successful re-hydrating him over the last day or so. Yesterday, we took him to see a local enthusiast and breeder. He forced fed him a cricket in the morning, which he just vomited up now! As per his instructions, I moved him to a terrarium, bought new lighting (basking spot lamp and a tropical 25 UVB fluorescent bulb and fixture). I have managed to keep the humidity levels higher in this kind of enclosure but he still will not eat.

The only vet available is not in until next week and I am afraid if he doesn't get the help he needs, he won't survive.

Rose

 

[BIGGUN]

If it's a hydration problem a tempid to slightly warm shower may help.
Just put a plant or fake tree in your shower, set the temp to warm to the touch, set the shower head to as fine as possible and aim it at the side of the shower to let the water splash onto him.

I'd try this first thing tomorrow morning. and I'm sure others that are more qualified than myself will give some ideas on his condition.

Kevin

 

[Dave Weldon]

Howdy Rose,

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I hate to tell you but you'll want to remove the Zilla Tropical 25 UVB and replace it with another UVB source such as a ZooMed Reptisun 5.0 18" tube and some kind of fixture to power it. I was part of the team that uncovered the dangers of the Zilla Tropical 50. It's a killer like no other. Even if it is rated as half the UVB energy, I would not consider the Tropical 25 to be judged safe.

As far as your panther's condition, please post the info requested in this LINK: https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/

It is important to post photos of your setup and your panther.

There are many possibilities for sources of problems. Many relate to basking temps (too high.. too low) and the quality of the visual light from the basking lamp, hydration, UVB, etc. Let's start with the list in the "how-to-ask..." and go from there.

What part of the world are you located?

 

[Justin Carl]

how large is you cage(in gallons and inches)? what watt MV bulb were you using? where is it placed/how far away from cage? also what is your supplement scheduel? what are your temperatures?

 

[DeepSouth Chameleons]

Hi Rose

I live in Louisiana and found out the hard way of finding experienced exotic vets. Give your panther a luke-warm shower. If you have a semi- deep kitchen sink you can place him on your hand and shower him lightly with the sink sprayer. Make sure it is luke-warm and lightly shower him/her. It may startle at first, especially if it is too forceful. Slowly work the shower from the tail to right before his/her head. My panthers LOVE this and I try to do this if not daily, every other day. At least for 10-15 min. Your baby may begin drinking as well, which is good. You can also purchase Hydro-Life (T-Rex) use as directed, just as an immediate need basis. If he continues not eating try Flukers- Repta-Aid (Insectivore/Carnivore Emergency Aid, you can find this at any local PetSmart or Petco. Just follow the instructions included in the box, which doses are determined by weight/grams. I hope this helps, and if I can help in anyway let me know.

 

[Rose]

Hello, all! Thanks so much for the support. Dave, thank you for the comments on the light and fixture. I will send detailed information as per the forum's "help line" in the morning.

I just gave Wolfie a warm sauna/shower in my bathtub. He loved it! I haven't seen him move so much in days. I also managed to get him to drink some water with electrolytes. Apparently he likes the syringe I was using. He followed my hand movements, climbed right onto my hand and opened up for some more.

We are located in Ottawa, Canada and are having quite the winter. It has been really cold outdoors these last few weeks, and the forced air heating leaves our house very very dry. I am almost certain that these conditions have contributed to Wolfie's decline in health. Using the well-ventilated ExoTerra, mesh enclosure worked well until heating season but recently subjected Wolfie to dramatic changes in temperature and humidity. He may have to have a summer home and a winter home!

Kind regards,
Rose

 

[Rose]

Panther update and help request

Here is the info

Cage Info:

Cage Type - Was housed in an ExoTerra cylindrical terrarium: Explorarium 45 - 45 x 60 cm. This week, as per recommendations, I moved him to a glass terrarium (62 x 32 x 40 cm).

Lighting - We were using an ExoTerra Sun Glo Halogen Neodymium Lamp (75W), upgraded to a mercury vapor. As per advice this week, I have switched to a basking spot lamp (100W)and a tropical 25 UVB fluorescent bulb and fixture. Lights are turned on early and remain on until 12 am.

Temperature - The temperature range is between 21 and 24 degrees celcius. In the Explorarium, the temp was warmest at the top on one side but Wolfie had lots of plants and a cool spot that remained room temperature. Temp at night: 20 - 23 degrees celcius. The temp is similar in the terrarium but the basking spot is 26.7 celcius

Humidity - Humidity levels are a challenge in the Explorarium but I have been able to maintain levels in the glass enclosure. In the morning, levels had dropped to 25% but I maintain 40-65% with regular misting throughout the day.

Plants - Silk and plastic aquarium plants- I just added 2 small live philodendrons with some coconut substrate atop the soil.
Location - The Explorarium was mounted in a location with minimal traffic, within sight of a window but not too close. Wolfie is currently in the corner of my home office, near a window. (no draft)

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - Male, panther chameleon - age: 6mths

Feeding - Crickets: gutloaded Amount: last week to 10 days, he has eaten a cricket or 2 a day. I thought he was on an “hunger strike” but I now believe there is a more serious problem. Before that, 10-15, depending on their size. What kind of schedule: mornings. How are you gut-loading your feeders: I use a mix from Canadianfeeders.com, which contains the following:Barley Flakes, Bee Pollen, Brewer's Yeast, Buckwheat Grits, Cracked Oats, Cracked Rye, Cracked Triticale, Cracked Wheat, Dehydrated Alfalfa, Dehydrated Cranberry, Dehydrated Coconut, Flaked Corn, Flax Seed, Gelatin, Hulled Millet, Paprika, Peanuts, Probiotic Culture (L. Acidophilus, L. Bifdus, B. Longum), Rolled Oats, Spirulina, Sunflower Seed, White Sesame Seed, Yellow Flax Seed. I also use water cubes with calcium.

Supplements - Repcal calcium with D3 (4 x per week) and Stickytongue Farm multivitamins (2 x per week)

Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use: Misting (4X per day). He has been drinking but not so far today.

Fecal Description - Because he has not eaten, there are no recent droppings. Lots of healthy-looking fecal matter.

History - His health has always been good. The breeder (away right now) would stop in once a month to check on him and was pleased with his health and growth.

Current Problem - He is lethargic, barely moves, won't eat. Eyes are closed often. Both my breeder and the only qualified vet have been away for several weeks. I have taken Wolfie to a local reptile enthusiast and he force fed him one cricket, which he spat up the next day. He made some recommendations, which I followed and although Wolfie physically looks improved, he is still not moving much and has yet to take a drink today.
Update: He is looking less dehydrated but when I placed him atop a branch/foliage, he is not gripping or holding onto the branch. He is just balancing on the branch. I picked up some Repti-Aid but am loathe to move him around. Should I wait for a bit and then give him a warm shower and some Repti Aid? I am looking for my digital camera. Until then, he is pale (like he often is when asleep). Although he looks better, I don’t think he is! His breathing seems light (until I reach in and he inhales and exhales more deeply). I am beginning to think he may have MBD. Buying lighting can be so confusing and I was using the Halogen Neodymium Lamp (75W) for a few months. When I learned that contrary to the box descriptions, it dod not contain the right UV rays, I bought a mercury vapor bulb. Any advice would be welcome.

Kind regards,
Rose

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Rose I don't keep panthers, but, I feel comfortable recommending lighting similar to what I use for my veiled:

http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/2007/12/lights-and-lighting.html

Your D3 supplementation seems heavy to me as well.

http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/2007/12/supplements.html

Good luck!
I have a feeling changing your UVB light source will have a positive effect.

-Brad

 

[Rose]

Wolfie takes a turn for the worse

He is currently on his side and his breathing is erratic. His mouth is open a little. He seems to be taking deep breaths now and again.

The earliest I can get in to see a vet is Tuesday! I don't think he is going to make it.

I have mixed some Repti Aid but I cannot seem to get him to take any.

He seemed to get sick so quickly. He was eating less but otherwise his usual charming self. I feel absolutely helpless. Is force feeding the right thing to do now or will it stress him too much?

Rose

 

[Dave Weldon]

Howdy Rose,

In his current condition I don't think feeding would be safe. Once he's down on his side, it is likely that any liquid put in his mouth could end-up in his lungs. The situation doesn't sound good....

 

[dodolah]

Hi Rose, there are some fatal mistake in your enclosure that you need to change immediately. See my response in red.

Here is the info

Cage Info:

Cage Type - Was housed in an ExoTerra cylindrical terrarium: Explorarium 45 - 45 x 60 cm. This week, as per recommendations, I moved him to a glass terrarium (62 x 32 x 40 cm).

6 months old panther should be caged in all screen cage. not glass as it promotes stale air and bacteria growth. Best to get 61 cm X 61 cmX 122 cm tall enclosure. Can you somewhat refund the glass terrarium and buy the screen cage instead? it is much much cheaper


Lighting - We were using an ExoTerra Sun Glo Halogen Neodymium Lamp (75W), upgraded to a mercury vapor. As per advice this week, I have switched to a basking spot lamp (100W)and a tropical 25 UVB fluorescent bulb and fixture. Lights are turned on early and remain on until 12 am.
i'm not sure i understand the timing here. you say the light remain on until midnight? That is a bit too intense. The best way is to imitate real life. I turn on the light at 6 am and turn off the light at 6pm

Temperature - The temperature range is between 21 and 24 degrees celcius. In the Explorarium, the temp was warmest at the top on one side but Wolfie had lots of plants and a cool spot that remained room temperature. Temp at night: 20 - 23 degrees celcius. The temp is similar in the terrarium but the basking spot is 26.7 celcius

night temp is perfect. but get the basking spot to 30 Celsius


Humidity - Humidity levels are a challenge in the Explorarium but I have been able to maintain levels in the glass enclosure. In the morning, levels had dropped to 25% but I maintain 40-65% with regular misting throughout the day.
more misting. it should not drop below 40% if possible. with mesh cage it will be difficult to maintain humidity, but once you fill the cage with real plants, it will be quite easy.


Plants - Silk and plastic aquarium plants- I just added 2 small live philodendrons with some coconut substrate atop the soil.
Location - The Explorarium was mounted in a location with minimal traffic, within sight of a window but not too close. Wolfie is currently in the corner of my home office, near a window. (no draft)
no substrate at all. It promotes bacteria growth. Philodendron is very toxic to your chameleon. take it out! get these 3: golden pothos, ficus benjamina, hibiscus rosa sinensis

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - Male, panther chameleon - age: 6mths

Feeding - Crickets: gutloaded Amount: last week to 10 days, he has eaten a cricket or 2 a day. I thought he was on an “hunger strike” but I now believe there is a more serious problem. Before that, 10-15, depending on their size. What kind of schedule: mornings. How are you gut-loading your feeders: I use a mix from Canadianfeeders.com, which contains the following:Barley Flakes, Bee Pollen, Brewer's Yeast, Buckwheat Grits, Cracked Oats, Cracked Rye, Cracked Triticale, Cracked Wheat, Dehydrated Alfalfa, Dehydrated Cranberry, Dehydrated Coconut, Flaked Corn, Flax Seed, Gelatin, Hulled Millet, Paprika, Peanuts, Probiotic Culture (L. Acidophilus, L. Bifdus, B. Longum), Rolled Oats, Spirulina, Sunflower Seed, White Sesame Seed, Yellow Flax Seed. I also use water cubes with calcium.

Supplements - Repcal calcium with D3 (4 x per week) and Stickytongue Farm multivitamins (2 x per week)
don't overload him with D3. reduce the repcal to 2X a week. and get herptivite (multivitamins). so the scheduling should be
herptivite (2X a week) Repcal D3 (2X a week) MinerAll (2X a week). make sure the minerAll is the "0" edition. not the "1" as it contains D3.

Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use: Misting (4X per day). He has been drinking but not so far today.
Usually 5 minutes per session will induce your chameleon drinking response

Fecal Description - Because he has not eaten, there are no recent droppings. Lots of healthy-looking fecal matter.

History - His health has always been good. The breeder (away right now) would stop in once a month to check on him and was pleased with his health and growth.

Current Problem - He is lethargic, barely moves, won't eat. Eyes are closed often. Both my breeder and the only qualified vet have been away for several weeks. I have taken Wolfie to a local reptile enthusiast and he force fed him one cricket, which he spat up the next day. He made some recommendations, which I followed and although Wolfie physically looks improved, he is still not moving much and has yet to take a drink today.
Update: He is looking less dehydrated but when I placed him atop a branch/foliage, he is not gripping or holding onto the branch. He is just balancing on the branch. I picked up some Repti-Aid but am loathe to move him around. Should I wait for a bit and then give him a warm shower and some Repti Aid? I am looking for my digital camera. Until then, he is pale (like he often is when asleep). Although he looks better, I don’t think he is! His breathing seems light (until I reach in and he inhales and exhales more deeply). I am beginning to think he may have MBD. Buying lighting can be so confusing and I was using the Halogen Neodymium Lamp (75W) for a few months. When I learned that contrary to the box descriptions, it dod not contain the right UV rays, I bought a mercury vapor bulb. Any advice would be welcome.
best UVB light so far is zoomed Reptisun 5.0 Tube. be very precise with this and don't buy anything else.

Kind regards,
Rose

 

[christyo2o2]

i would call the vet back up and tell them its an emergncy. ussually they will make room for an Emergency. either that or drive up to see david weldon

 

[Sepioteuthis]

Just wanted to comment on Dodolah's comment about the glass terrarium.

A proper glass terrarium with ventilation at the top and bottom can actually be better than a screen cage in a dry environment like what Rose is describing. A significant part of the chameleon keeping world (I.e. Europe)keeps their chameleons in glass or wood terraria with great success. I think the reason that glass enclosures have such a bad rep on American forums is that many new keepers get sold an aquarium, which doesn't have good ventilation.

 

[dodolah]

Just wanted to comment on Dodolah's comment about the glass terrarium.

A proper glass terrarium with ventilation at the top and bottom can actually be better than a screen cage in a dry environment like what Rose is describing. A significant part of the chameleon keeping world (I.e. Europe)keeps their chameleons in glass or wood terraria with great success. I think the reason that glass enclosures have such a bad rep on American forums is that many new keepers get sold an aquarium, which doesn't have good ventilation.

yes.
minimum 2 screen sides for air circulations.
the more the better IMHO.

 

[Sepioteuthis]

I wasn't talking about 2 screen sides. Just about ventilation strips.
All I'm trying to say is that not all glass terrariums are bad. Rose's terrarium may be perfectly suitable for a chameleon and I don't think that moving the animal again would be a good idea at this point.

Anyway. Rose; how is he doing, any change?

 

[dodolah]

well.. if it's working for you then it's good.
as for me, the glass terrarium has caused my veiled URI.
so, one bad experience and a huge vet bill is enough for me to convert to all screen

 

[aplazbarr]

I'm very sorry to hear about what your going through. I went through the exact same thing lastSeptember. My problem was I over supplemented. Mine eventually passed on. I pray yours will get better.