Enclosure Fountain Debate

[Dave]

Ok, so many of us know that it's not exactly safe to put a simple waterpump waterfall setup in enclosures based on bacteria and other microbial growth. But I started thinking...what if the water was pumped through a filter as it cycles?

Obviously it couldn't just be a simple aquarium filter as bacteria clings to the filter itself and doesn't really filter bacteria anyways, and actually enhances the growth due to surface area. So we need a bacterial eliminator. Then I started thinking of a product that Pro-Products (makers of Pro-mist) sells called BioShield...



If we could coat the pump and hosing in BioShield, it would eliminate bacterial growth as it's pumped, thereby eliminating any hazard waterfalls create, other than splash radius. I think it could be a cool little project I might have to pursue Anyone have any thoughts on this?

-Dave

 

[Drone]

There are people that use fountains. I don't want to hassle with it, making sure its clean all the time, ect. Thats my $.02

 

[reyesjoshuacruz]

excellent dave.

but a few questions

does anyone know what bacteria actually causes a prob for chams?

what bacteria does this coating kill?

 

[sandrachameleon]

If the chameleon poops on the face or bowl of the waterfall, the water will have fecal material in it, which the chameleon might ingest if it then drinks from the face "downstream" or from the bowl - before the water even gets to the filter.

 

[reyesjoshuacruz]

that is one of the easiest things to fix though, screen in the right place will prevent the feces from entering the water

 

[Sneak]

Poop in the water seems to be everyones main concern when it comes to these things besides bacteria. My question is, unless you clean up after your cham every single time he takes a dump, what happens if he drinks the water off the leaf that the crap was on? Im just wondering because it would be easier to notice that you have poo in the water and take it out than to try to control what leaf you cham drinks off of.


I do, however, have the waterfalls that sit on an end table and they get absolutly nasty no matter what. I wouldnt put one in there. just ask yourself if you would drink the water out of that thing

 

[BocaJan]

In the water small particles of poop will be filtered. It can stick to anything. Eventually crickets and chams alike will drink dirty water. I would rather not take a chance for eye candy.

that is one of the easiest things to fix though, screen in the right place will prevent the feces from entering the water

 

[klangford]

Screen indeed will stop the larger visible feces; I wonder though about smaller particulates that might fall through the screen such as roach or cricket feces. One would need to be very vigilant but I suppose it could be done.

Might be easier to simply route the water through an EPA approved UV bacterial system. Install something like this between the reservoir and the pump.

http://www.thewaterexchange.net/uv_purifiers.html

 

[Chameleonator]

Simply put... if you're willing to take a straw and dip into the 'filtered' water from the waterfall and take a sip every once in awhile... I don't see the harm... now if you're not willing to take a drink... why subject your chameleons to water you would find unfit for yourself to drink?

 

[Chuck G]

Simply put... if you're willing to take a straw and dip into the 'filtered' water from the waterfall and take a sip every once in awhile... I don't see the harm... now if you're not willing to take a drink... why subject your chameleons to water you would find unfit for yourself to drink?

That will put everything in perspective!

 

[klangford]

Simply put... if you're willing to take a straw and dip into the 'filtered' water from the waterfall and take a sip every once in awhile... I don't see the harm... now if you're not willing to take a drink... why subject your chameleons to water you would find unfit for yourself to drink?

Dunno about that; I'll take a drop of holy water at church for my forehead but I'm not drinking from that community bowl (j/k - you actually make a great point).

 

[reyesjoshuacruz]

if you dont change things about the enclosure most likely your cham will follow a routine and do the deed in the same spot every day making placement of the water feature common sense.

at that point chances that feces will enter the water are low. screen applied to the right places will take that lower. the right screen will not allow most insect feces to flow through but will allow water.

ur in the cage every day feeding at least, bring food in ( or cup feed ) and check for poop.

either way lets assume you can keep feces out. because it can be done

will this coating aid with the governing of the bacteria population that poses a threat that will naturally occur in a closed water system with a small volume of water?

what about adding an inline uv filter?

 

[opihiman]

so we buy a waterfall fountain for 40 to 50 bucks now we start talking about a UV sterilizer any where from 20(ebay) to 100+bucks. Adding extra tubing and possibly a stronger pump. Oh yeah a filter system to filter out solid paritcles and what not....oh yeah and then we still need to occ remove and clean the whole set up....

Too much work and money for me...Just keeping everything else going is enough work for me.

OPI

 

[chamelisa]

Dunno about that; I'll take a drop of holy water at church for my forehead but I'm not drinking from that community bowl (j/k - you actually make a great point).

LOL! So do you!

 

[Nicodemayo]

In my opinion if one is not able to provide a sanitary water source for a chameleon to drink from, chameleons are not for them. I feel that water fountains are sort of a lazy way out from the fact your chams needs to be watered multiple times a day. A dripper is $10, hell you can make one, and they're alot less work than a fountain would be, not to mention that eventually your $30 bottle of biosheild will run out. My $.02

 

[sandrachameleon]

Poop in the water seems to be everyones main concern when it comes to these things besides bacteria. My question is, unless you clean up after your cham every single time he takes a dump, what happens if he drinks the water off the leaf that the crap was on?

I do check for poop twice daily and remove immediately.
Also My chams drink from dripper hoses, so I know exactly where the water comes from, goes to and that it never comes in contact with fecal materials (unless they find a way to poop upwards against gravity)

 

[sandrachameleon]

so we buy a waterfall fountain for 40 to 50 bucks now we start talking about a UV sterilizer any where from 20(ebay) to 100+bucks. Adding extra tubing and possibly a stronger pump. Oh yeah a filter system to filter out solid paritcles and what not....oh yeah and then we still need to occ remove and clean the whole set up....Too much work and money for me...Just keeping everything else going is enough work for me.
OPI

TRUELY

In my opinion if one is not able to provide a sanitary water source for a chameleon to drink from, chameleons are not for them. I feel that water fountains are sort of a lazy way out from the fact your chams needs to be watered multiple times a day. A dripper is $10, hell you can make one, and they're alot less work than a fountain would be, not to mention that eventually your $30 bottle of biosheild will run out. My $.02

100% Agreement

 

[Chameleon Company]

Waterfalls are not just a bad idea ....

They are a terrible idea ! Standing water anywhere in a chameleon cage is bad, and the contamination usually occurs first from loose bugs. Waterfalls can splash as well, and standing water need not be a pool, just an always-wet area. Your main concern will not be that the chameleon will drink the contaminated water directly, which may happen, but that the same loose bugs that contaminate the wet area then pass on higher bacteria levels to the chameleon when it eats the bug. Some bacteria is always out there, but it is not the point. A septic water source will turn loose bugs into poison pills, carrying far higher bacteria levels than normal. They can handle it. Your chameleon cannot. Been there. Done that.

Of course, the waterfall sellers would like you to buy the product. And if I am the one that sells you your replacement chameleon after you kill the first one, I just might like it too !

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

Oh yeah the waterfall guys want you to buy it. On the box there is a picture of a Chameleon Chillin on it. HAHAHA

I started to learn if it has a picture of a chameleon on it it probably isn't good for chameleons. Seriously! has any one else noticed that.

 

[Nicodemayo]

Yeah that or how about the critter keepers that have a pic of a big gravid female veiled on the side. The label says critter keeper and a chameleon is a kritter so it MUST be the proper habitat. Now all i need is coco husk, water bowl, and a fake plant and WHAM i got me a chameleon habitat.