Eragon didn't get the memo

[Angelwolf]

So many times, people are scolded for handling their chams, by other people. There are some, however that do trust their humans and actually want to come out and interact. My Eragon and Emma are both this way! I am so blessed to have these two, and someday, I do plan to breed them, with the hope of their temperaments being passed on to the next generation.

 

[Chamel619]

I’m sorry to say, but your husbandry is incorrect and you’re miss reading their actions to find a better place to live, for affection, which they are not capable of. They are merely unhappy with their home more than they are scared of you.

From what I can see, the enclosure you’re using is too small and without enough branches for the ability to climb. He will appreciate a spot for hiding also, to watch what’s going on without being seen.

Valid chameleons will also eat plants, so plastic plants are a major no-no as they will potential eat them and become impacted.

There are many outlets for information to improve the husbandry that you’re providing.

I apologize for my harshness.

 

[Angelwolf]

Thank you for your input. But it's temporary housing for him until he gets a little bigger. I have been keeping chams for more than 5 years with success. I have also handled all of my chams. There are live plants in his enclosure and yes, he does enjoy nibbling on them from time to time. So thank you for sharing your thoughts on the topic, but I will continue to be hopeful that some day, we can turn these animals into more than just "look at me" animals. Also, I would like to know how you know they are incapable of feeling emotions? Please share!

 

[Brodybreaux25]

.

 

[Chamel619]

Thank you for your input. But it's temporary housing for him until he gets a little bigger. I have been keeping chams for more than 5 years with success. I have also handled all of my chams. There are live plants in his enclosure and yes, he does enjoy nibbling on them from time to time. So thank you for sharing your thoughts on the topic, but I will continue to be hopeful that some day, we can turn these animals into more than just "look at me" animals. Also, I would like to know how you know they are incapable of feeling emotions? Please share!

I didn’t say they weren’t capable of emotions. They clearly get angry and show fear, which are emotions. I said they were incapable of affection. They are solitary, territorial creatures. You will not see 2 chameleons in the same enclosure or even in line of sight of each other coexisting in harmony. One or both will be stressed to the point Of them becoming sick and dying. This, to me, suggests the lack of the affection trait.

Wishful thinking will not erase millions of years of evolution.

You clearly love being a care taker for these amazing creatures and sound like a wonderful person, full of love for life. My statements were to help, not to shame you.


I apologize for not being able to ignore it, but the videos you posted show inadequate husbandry and chameleons trying to escape it.

My 25 years of caring for and observing chameleons is the foundation of my statements.

Its up to you if it’s corrected or not.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/chams-are-social-animals.171396/

 

[Angelwolf]

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/chams-are-social-animals.171396/

Thank you. I was hoping someone would find that link.

 

[Chamel619]

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/chams-are-social-animals.171396/

Petr Necas is well known and respected. I have read many of his article and own his book “Nature hidden jewel” (highly recommend it if you can find it) Bill Strand has a couple of interviews with him over at “chameleon breeder podcast” I also use Peters supplements, religiously.

Periodic exposure to other chameleons can be a good thing, but a large, well planted enclosure with lots of hiding spots to move in and out of line of sight is required.

In nature, where they have plenty of room to move away from each other, I’m sure there is some kind of visual social interaction, but nothing in that article suggests that they show affection for each other or humans.

 

[Chamel619]

Thank you. I was hoping someone would find that link.

You’re obviously taking offense to my statements. So I will now bow out of this conversation.

Best of luck to you and yours.

 

[Angelwolf]

You’re obviously taking offense to my statements. So I will now bow out of this conversation.

Best of luck to you and yours.

No. I'm not actually taking offense. I'm just supporting a theory. I'm not trying to start a war or anything. And I do take your concerns to heart. But I also know that everyone's opinions and situations are different. Just like the way we care for our chams. You do things one way, and I do things another, yet neither is wrong. It all comes down to what is beneficial to your cham and you. No need to bow out. I'm not offended.

 

[Angelwolf]

Petr Necas is well known and respected. I have read many of his article and own his book “Nature hidden jewel” (highly recommend it if you can find it) Bill Strand has a couple of interviews with him over at “chameleon breeder podcast” I also use Peters supplements, religiously.

Periodic exposure to other chameleons can be a good thing, but a large, well planted enclosure with lots of hiding spots to move in and out of line of sight is required.

In nature, where they have plenty of room to move away from each other, I’m sure there is some kind of visual social interaction, but nothing in that article suggests that they show affection for each other or humans.

Just because we don't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't exist...the first wolves had no need for human beings either, let alone seeking affection, but evolution prevails and now we have the modern day dog. So what if the same were true for some cham species? Perhaps evolution is changing what we know about these wonderful creatures? It never hurts to question the answers we think we know. As for my husbandry, from what you could see, I totally understand your concerns. But there's actually quite a bit more than what you can see in the video. It was a very close up shot. Anyway, it's currently my bed time. Waking up at 3 am for work means early to bed for me. Good night.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

nothing in that article suggests that they show affection for each other or humans.

Never said it did. Personally I believe they are not capable of any type of emotion whatsoever, anger and fear included.

 

[Mrs.Rocky]

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/chams-are-social-animals.171396/

So I should continue to try to handle my chameleon? She’s been more tolerant of me visibly being around her enclosure. I do not force her out like I use to for meds. But she does allow me to go near her in her cage to administer her liquid calcium. And if I need to mist she doesn’t run and hide like she use to. And now I’m able to feed her by hand or in a cup. So I says it’s progress but I do not take her out or try touching her unless it’s for meds. So if I understood the article. She is tolerant of me visually? I know it’s in reference to other chameleons. But I don’t have another chameleon. So would it be kind of the same as for human interaction?

 

[Chamel619]

So I should continue to try to handle my chameleon? She’s been more tolerant of me visibly being around her enclosure. I do not force her out like I use to for meds. But she does allow me to go near her in her cage to administer her liquid calcium. And if I need to mist she doesn’t run and hide like she use to. And now I’m able to feed her by hand or in a cup. So I says it’s progress but I do not take her out or try touching her unless it’s for meds. So if I understood the article. She is tolerant of me visually? I know it’s in reference to other chameleons. But I don’t have another chameleon. So would it be kind of the same as for human interaction?

To clear up any confusion this thread is generating, I will interject once more.

You should definitely continue to build trust with your chameleons. It will make the interactions that are unavoidable less stressful and easier to tolerate.

But, do not mistake them wanting out of their enclosure or reaching out to you as desire to be close to you or wanting to come out and play. Cage size, bad husbandry, humidity, temp or hormones are more likely to stimulate this sort of behavior.