Everything's going wrong

[ChamyLove]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Panther chameleon, male, 11 months old. I've had him about 7 months
Handling - Not often, only when necessary. I've been working on it though, and he willingly walked onto my hand about a week ago (but I think it freaked him out)
Feeding - Crickets and super worm. I don't feed super worms very often because they back him up (digestive) but he likes them alot. About 10 crickets a day or 3 supers and 5 crickets. I don't have much of a feeding schedule because I'm in school all day, but he gets his food in a cup around 7:15 the morning. Flunkers brand cricket food and water
Supplements - Zoomed calcium w/out d3. Flukers calcium w/ 93. herptivite multivitamin. Everyday calcium. Everyother Sunday multivitamin, everyother Sunday calcium w/ d3
Watering - I mist and put a dripper on. I mist mainly 2 times a day, but sometimes 3, for anywhere between 1-5 minutes at a time. When misting he will open his mouth the slightest bit and let me squirt water into his mouth.
Fecal Description - about 85 brown. urate white with a tad of orange (I know this means he's dehydrated. I'm working on it, and it's getting better). I assume he had one before i got him, but I haven't gotten him one.
History - I bought him at Kammerflage Kreations.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Screen 18x18x36" cage
Lighting - Zoomed brand lights. 75W basking, 5.0 UBV strip light. Lights on:6:30 Off: 7:15
Temperature - Room temp: 70* Basking temp: 92* Lowest overnight temp: 65*. I have a zoo med hydrometer and thermometer duo, and zoomed electronic thermometer for basking spot
Humidity - High: 80 Low: 40. Misting 2-3x a day for 1-5 minutes (depending on the time I have).Zoomed hydrometer/thermometer
Plants - ficus, and some fake vines
Placement - The cage is in my room. it has pretty good circulation, but on days where it feels a little stuffy and it's too cold to open a window I have a fan. From the floor to the top of the cage it is about 5'5"
Location - Vancouver Washington (Right above Portland Oregon)


Current Problem - about 2 weeks ago I noticed Oliver's appetite drop a little. since He started only eating everyother day, but still eating the same amount I thought it must be because adult chameleons don't eat as much. Then I started reading on the fourum that dehydration can cause loss in appetite. I went in to see if Oliver had pooped yet (he did) and his urate looked pretty orange. I started misting him more frequently and for longer amounts (when I mist him longer he opens him mouth for me to squirt into). His urate started looking much better. Currently there is only a small portion (maybe 5% - it's just one little corner) that is an orange-y color.

It was 3 days that he hadn't eaten.
One day I was running late for school, so I gave him some super worms instead of crickets. When I came home they were all gone, which made me really happy because he has eating again!
The next day(yesterday) I fed him crickets and when I came home he hadn't eaten at all. That's when I started noticing another pattern. All of those days he wasn't eating I was trying to feed him crickets. I think he also might be tired of eating crickets, but I don't have anything else to feed him but superworms, which make him backed up.

To make it even worse, This morning I woke up to Oliver trying to eat a fake leaf. I've heard that this could be a sign of mal-nourishment, and it brought to mind, that all those days he didn't eat were days he wasn't getting his vitamins/ calcium.

At this point I don't want anything else to go wrong. If you have alternate reasonings that I have for why things happened the way they they did please share. If you have any ways to help please share them also.

 

[Poptartjake]

I would definitely try and get some different feeders ASAP. I recommend Dubia Cockroaches if they're available to you, other choices are Horn worms, Phoenix worms, Silk worms, Locust, etc and so forth. Also, I am unsure about Panthers, but with my Veiled I had to remove ALL fake plants from his enclosure as he was eating them which can cause impaction. In place, I am using 2 Pothos that he loves to munch on.

 

[camimom]

Ok first off- your gutload needs to improve.

Fresh fruits and veggies, not the flukers crap, because that's all it is.

ALso, he could be bored with crickets, I agree you need to get more feeders.

I also suggest buying an auto mist system if you are finding he is getting dehydrated.

adults can go several days without eating, so its not a huge deal.

some aduts have been known to go 2 weeks without any food.

 

[Poptartjake]

Ok first off- your gutload needs to improve.

Fresh fruits and veggies, not the flukers crap, because that's all it is.

ALso, he could be bored with crickets, I agree you need to get more feeders.

I also suggest buying an auto mist system if you are finding he is getting dehydrated.

adults can go several days without eating, so its not a huge deal.

some aduts have been known to go 2 weeks without any food.

I wouldn't SUGGEST buying an automatic mist system unless you have plenty of spare cash to spend (Mistking or Aquazamp are the only ones worth buying to my knowledge). The reason for this is just because you have the mister providing water steadily throughout the day doesn't mean that your Cham will recognize this as a drinking source.

For example: My female Jax will drink from my hand mister after about 1-3 minutes of steady spray. At the same time, I have NEVER seen her drink from the mist my MistKing puts out even though I have it set for 5 minute intervals to help stimulate a need to drink. So, to compensate I use a dripper (which is a whole other story in itself).

So, if you can mist 3-4 times a day by hand without it being a inconvenience, I would recommend it versus an automated mister, but that is just my opinion.

 

[ChamyLove]

Thank you

Since I'm what I call a full time teen (in high school, collage classes, sports, clubs, ect.) I don't have a job to buy a new cage right now, but I'm getting one for Christmas, along with the promise to pay for half of a misting system. I have the other half right now, but my mom hates giving "early gifts" so hopefully I'll be able to raise enough money for the entire misting system before then.

The only problem I have right now with buying feeders, is that there are no specific reptile stores here in Vancouver. If anyone knows of a place in Portland i will defiantly try to get there at least every other week.

Another problem I have is since I live with my mom, she doesn't allow any type of roaches (believe me I've tried).

As I'm writing this, I noticed Oliver eating a few crickets. I will defiantly to to get some more feeders for him though anyways. I know that the more variety the better.

edit: I'll also change my gutloading.

 

[camimom]

I wouldn't SUGGEST buying an automatic mist system unless you have plenty of spare cash to spend (Mistking or Aquazamp are the only ones worth buying to my knowledge). The reason for this is just because you have the mister providing water steadily throughout the day doesn't mean that your Cham will recognize this as a drinking source.

For example: My female Jax will drink from my hand mister after about 1-3 minutes of steady spray. At the same time, I have NEVER seen her drink from the mist my MistKing puts out even though I have it set for 5 minute intervals to help stimulate a need to drink. So, to compensate I use a dripper (which is a whole other story in itself).

So, if you can mist 3-4 times a day by hand without it being a inconvenience, I would recommend it versus an automated mister, but that is just my opinion.

First off- most chams drink from a mister eventually. second off- jax are known for being finicky drinkers anyway.

ALL of my chams, babies included, drink when the msiter goes off. not to mention, some chams don't like to drink in front of people.

You don't need PLENTY of spare cash, a basic mist system costs 99 bucks.

Also, it can take chams a week or so to get used to drinking the water from a mist system. once they do, it gets pretty easy to keep them hydrated.

As for bugs- you can try ordering online. Most of us who don't breed bugs full time, order from online sources.

 

[Poptartjake]

First off- most chams drink from a mister eventually. second off- jax are known for being finicky drinkers anyway.

ALL of my chams, babies included, drink when the msiter goes off. not to mention, some chams don't like to drink in front of people.

You don't need PLENTY of spare cash, a basic mist system costs 99 bucks.

Also, it can take chams a week or so to get used to drinking the water from a mist system. once they do, it gets pretty easy to keep them hydrated.

As for bugs- you can try ordering online. Most of us who don't breed bugs full time, order from online sources.

I will agree that most Cham's will drink from a mister eventually, just not mine.
I fully understand and know that some Cham's wont eat/drink in front of you, but mine will. I know this because of the dripper I use. I've had the system set up for almost 3 weeks now and still I wait for the day I see her use it XD.

My mom is the same way about cockroaches, actually. I still keep them, as I MUCH prefer them to crickets (she says she prefers the crickets). I personally hate finding crickets everywhere and have a much easier time keeping the house clean of roaches then I do crickets.

 

[ChamyLove]

[QUOTE/]
So, if you can mist 3-4 times a day by hand without it being a inconvenience, I would recommend it versus an automated mister, but that is just my opinion.[/QUOTE]


This is actually the only reason I want to get an automatic mister. I'm not home for most of the day, so I'm not able to mist him as frequently. I'm completely fine with hand misting; I actually think it's helped me bond with my chameleon. He's not the friendliest, and spraying into his mouth used to be the first he would ever let me come near him.

I understand your point completely, and appreciate your input.

 

[browncofan]

Online

Hello, you can always order feeders online. There are
several places you can get a good variety. When I was
trying to see what my guy liked I used
lindasgonebuggie.com. She carries lots of small quantity
worms for $5. Silkworms, butterworms, Phoenix worms
and she also has horn worms which are good for hydration
because they have a lot of moisture. Shipping wasn't
bad either.

Good Luck

 

[Poptartjake]

This is actually the only reason I want to get an automatic mister. I'm not home for most of the day, so I'm not able to mist him as frequently. I'm completely fine with hand misting; I actually think it's helped me bond with my chameleon. He's not the friendliest, and spraying into his mouth used to be the first he would ever let me come near him.

I understand your point completely, and appreciate your input.

I too am a full time student + work part time as well. I got my MistKing under the same pretense and have been using it on my Jax, but now I am started to consider setting it up for my little Veiled instead.

My hand mist schedule on the week days is usually once in the morning when we wake up, then once at lunch, and then once before bed time (1-2 hours before, no later). I also fill her dripper 1-2 times a day on average, but that is a whole separate issue...This mist schedule isn't ideal, but it should be enough. Assuming you absolutely can't find some way to do this, then get the mister, but know that your Cham is likely to reject it at least at first.

 

[ChamyLove]

Whoa you guys are replying so quickly I can hardly keep up!

My mom is the same way about cockroaches, actually. I still keep them, as I MUCH prefer them to crickets (she says she prefers the crickets). I personally hate finding crickets everywhere and have a much easier time keeping the house clean of roaches then I do crickets.

I've actually never lost any crickets. Though I do find them completely repulsive. Thats the min reason why I would prefer having dubias

As for bugs- you can try ordering online. Most of us who don't breed bugs full time, order from online sources.

I'll try ordering online. Just a quick question, how long do silk worms last? and do you have to feed them?

I'm just curious because I hear they are good, but I've never had them

 

[ChamyLove]

Hello, you can always order feeders online. There are
several places you can get a good variety. When I was
trying to see what my guy liked I used
lindasgonebuggie.com. She carries lots of small quantity
worms for $5. Silkworms, butterworms, Phoenix worms
and she also has horn worms which are good for hydration
because they have a lot of moisture. Shipping wasn't
bad either.

Good Luck

Cool thanks! I've looked at other websites and they sell them in such large quantities i'm hesitant to buy. I'll defiantly check them out

 

[camimom]

SIlkworms last depending on how many you order, how fast you grow them, and how hot you keep them.

Yes you have to feed them, they are a caterpillar.

As an adult, my chams could eat 3 or 4 adult sized ones, but as babies, they could eat 10 smalls. its just dependent on size of them.

 

[ChamyLove]

SIlkworms last depending on how many you order, how fast you grow them, and how hot you keep them.

Yes you have to feed them, they are a caterpillar.

As an adult, my chams could eat 3 or 4 adult sized ones, but as babies, they could eat 10 smalls. its just dependent on size of them.

You feed the mulberry leaves right?

And so if I feed them less/ less often will they grow more slowly? do they need their own lighting system?

I dont want to breed them, just have them to feed off

 

[pigglett79]

You feed the mulberry leaves right?

And so if I feed them less/ less often will they grow more slowly? do they need their own lighting system?

I dont want to breed them, just have them to feed off

You can feed them the commercial mulberry chow or mulberry leaves. They can occasionally eat shaved carrots, and greens, but really need mulberry of some sort as the main part of their diet. No lighting required.

 

[teejayteej]

you can get the food for the silk worms from which ever place you order them from. I suggest our sponsor Coastal Silkworms, if you call in the order they can help you better. Explain you are a first time customer and what you problem is with your Cham. Tell them size and age of your Cham and they will send you what you need they will also tell you how to care for them and how to slow their growth so they don't get to big. they have great customer service so I have found.

 

[biffle]

IMO,

Adults seem to go through cycles where they eat like pigs or rarely. Don't stress, Watch his poo(frequency) and his weight. If he is pooing regularly and not losing weight, then let him do his thing.

This assumes your bulbs/temps are up to specs.

Jason

 

[nick barta]

Contact Tay and A, they are in Vancouver, they probably have feeders, or could direct you where to go locally.

Nick

 

[ridgebax1]

I would NOT recommend the Exo-terra Monsoon. I have one, had to replace it after a few months (under warranty) but am less than impressed with the performance. If you are gone all day you can set up a dripper system for not too much money, just have to be careful not to flood the cage (which is what the monsoon did when it broke). I have ordered crickets from Ghann's, they sell phoenix worms too which my guy loves. He also likes silks and horns, not crazy about butters andd won't even look at a roach! Your guy does not need to eat every day. When Omar hit ~6 months he started to skip a day here and there. I offer food daily, if he eats fine if not OK too. Correct supplementation is important. One comfort with Dubia's is they are a tropical species so they would not survive your winters. They don't climb or fly or bite or STINK. There are lots of online sources for feeders including the site sponsers and even ebay! Good Luck.

 

[ChamyLove]

Contact Tay and A, they are in Vancouver, they probably have feeders, or could direct you where to go locally.

Nick

Cool I'll try and find them. I looked up http://www.lindasgonebuggie.com/ and they seem to have good stuff and good prices so I'll probably try them first.

IMO,

Adults seem to go through cycles where they eat like pigs or rarely. Don't stress, Watch his poo(frequency) and his weight. If he is pooing regularly and not losing weight, then let him do his thing.

This assumes your bulbs/temps are up to specs.

Jason

Awesome. I dont have a scale, but I'll definatly get one.

I too am a full time student + work part time as well. I got my MistKing under the same pretense and have been using it on my Jax, but now I am started to consider setting it up for my little Veiled instead.

My hand mist schedule on the week days is usually once in the morning when we wake up, then once at lunch, and then once before bed time (1-2 hours before, no later). I also fill her dripper 1-2 times a day on average, but that is a whole separate issue...This mist schedule isn't ideal, but it should be enough. Assuming you absolutely can't find some way to do this, then get the mister, but know that your Cham is likely to reject it at least at first.

My current schedule is like this:
6:30am wakeup and take care on cham (food, water)
7:15am leave for school
6:15pm come home/ mist cham and take out remaining food
and then the rest of the night is spent on homework and working

If he doesnt like the misting system at first I guess I can try and just slowly ease him into it.