Evolution

[Chali2naRap]

I'm very curious as to where chameleons all started. The Sloth is really the only animal i can think of that closely resembles a chameleon. When i think of reptiles i see an animal with legs out to the side and a wobbling motion when moving, while the chams have very distinct use of limbs thats one of a kind for a reptile along with its tongue and eyes. Does anyone know what chameleons once used to be billions of years ago? especially for Jacksonii. I would think a giant lizard with a tongue that shoots several yards..... either that or for jacksons a triceratops

 

[okiroo]

i dont think so lol. i tink i remember people saying chams were anenome(those things clownfish live in) i might be totally wrong tho

 

[Goldenarcher1328]

Chameleons are very closely related to Agamas if i am not mistaken.

 

[drcrossfire]

i dont think so lol. i tink i remember people saying chams were anenome(those things clownfish live in) i might be totally wrong tho

I apologize... this is a rumor I started as a joke-- i guess you missed the end of that thread

As for the evolution of chameleons... it is difficult to speculate, but we can know that they did not come from sloths. The commonly believed evolutionary line pretty much follows that mammals evolved some time after reptiles. So for a sloth --> chameleon would be difficult.

I found an interesting article relating to how the chameleon tongue developed-- http://hydrodictyon.eeb.uconn.edu/people/schwenk/SchwenkBellChamTongue88.pdf

Essentially-- evolution occurs as a manner of decent with modification. Usually one reptile is born with one mild change that allows a competitive advantage over the rest of it's species. This allows it to breed with more females and survive better. In the instance of the chameleon, it could have regarded one being born with an split claw that helped it climb.

Adaptave radiation can also occur, where there is things such as water/mountains in the way that causes separation of species. We see this with coloration in panther chameleons that we call "locales"... should these locales be separated for a long enough period without genetic crossing between them, it may have been possible for speciation to occur....

But, I digress... the oldest chameleon fossil record is approximately 26 million years old. so we would have to start looking all the way back then!

 

[Goldenarcher1328]

I apologize... this is a rumor I started as a joke-- i guess you missed the end of that thread

As for the evolution of chameleons... it is difficult to speculate, but we can know that they did not come from sloths. The commonly believed evolutionary line pretty much follows that mammals evolved some time after reptiles. So for a sloth --> chameleon would be difficult.

I found an interesting article relating to how the chameleon tongue developed-- http://hydrodictyon.eeb.uconn.edu/people/schwenk/SchwenkBellChamTongue88.pdf

Essentially-- evolution occurs as a manner of decent with modification. Usually one reptile is born with one mild change that allows a competitive advantage over the rest of it's species. This allows it to breed with more females and survive better. In the instance of the chameleon, it could have regarded one being born with an split claw that helped it climb.

Adaptave radiation can also occur, where there is things such as water/mountains in the way that causes separation of species. We see this with coloration in panther chameleons that we call "locales"... should these locales be separated for a long enough period without genetic crossing between them, it may have been possible for speciation to occur....

But, I digress... the oldest chameleon fossil record is approximately 26 million years old. so we would have to start looking all the way back then!

Good info. Was there a species related to this fossil?

 

[Zen Reptiles]

Koalas have the exact same finger-fusion as chameleons....very interesting.

Closest thing evolutionarily is Seahorses. Prehensile tails, independent eyes, crazy cool patterns, color changing ability, frills and 'accessories' lol. Although it is the males that give live birth, in chameleons live birth is common in Trioceros species.

Evolution is fun. I really don't think we even know 1% of it though, but that 1% sure counts for a lot!

For example....astrobiologists from NASA (and other international organizations) stay at one of my friend's cabins up by Pavillion Lake (about an hour away).

They study fresh-water microbialites that are only found in 2 lakes on Earth. When my pal was talking to them about it they said they have theorized that an asteroid hit during an ice-age, forming the thin&deep lake....but leaving no crater because the area was covered thick with glaciers.

He said they think the asteroid may have introduced the microbialites to Earth.

For now, just a theory, but it sure makes you wonder.

 

[drcrossfire]

They don't have amniotic eggs... key factor is splitting off reptiles from amphibians. And since I believe they are just bony fish-- they are way down the list of separation from reptiles/chams

You can't just take physical characteristics and say they are closely related... though they may be different lineages that show similar traits; this is called convergent evolution. They are not closely related-- similar to the human eye and the octopus eye. We both adapted the same thing along different means.


some cool evolutionary things to look into:
cichlids in lake victoria
sulfur vents in the ocean
other "chimneys" in the ocean

 

[Chali2naRap]

wow this is getting interesting, its astonishing how little we know about these types of things, thanks for the links. and i wasnt saying i think its related to a sloth, they just remind me of them, the way they move slow and all.... it would be cool if there was a dinasaur with a huge tongue!!!

 

[drcrossfire]

wow this is getting interesting, its astonishing how little we know about these types of things, thanks for the links. and i wasnt saying i think its related to a sloth, they just remind me of them, the way they move slow and all.... it would be cool if there was a dinasaur with a huge tongue!!!

Yeah it would... or imagine how screwed we'd be if chameleons were the size of like a t-rex. we'd be sittin in our living rooms then BAM.

Evolution is a very interesting phenomenon with a lot of misconceptions... like for instance... no one is saying humans evolved from monkeys. Just that we had a common ancestor to them.

Also.. it takes an incredibly long time.. it's not like one day~ bam. new species.