Eye issue - story of past 2 months - question

[Lacieee]

Hi guys! I posted 2 months ago about Sergio and his issue with one of his eyes. I'd like to share our story with vets and about his illness, also I have a question at the end.

2 months ago I noticed that some kind of jelly-ish thing was in front of his right eye. Now I know, it was a drop of tear that couldn't escape. He got an eye infection which has spread into his tear ducts. It also infected his mouth, so after consultation with a reptile specialist vet, he suggested a medicated wash of his eyes, nose, and mouth. He also used some kind of gas, not to move while it was happening. Also, he gave us an antibiotic drop through the mouth, which we used for 10 days.

After the medical treatment, it seemed that the illness had disappeared, but we had no luck. Unfortunately, every week we came back for control, he was able to produce some stuff out from his tear ducts, which meant that the illness was still present. After all, he suggested a hospitalization for 4 days, where the doctors would do the same thing every day once or twice, to make sure that the illness would not come back.

The last treatment before hospitalization (which will happen next Wednesday) was yesterday, and after I brought him home, I put him in the terrarium, and he closed his eyes and started to nap. It was around 3 PM.

Now my question: It's 1 PM the next day, and Sergio is still sitting at almost the same spot, and his eyes are still closed. He doesn't move much, he does not eat, does not drink, does not poop since yesterday afternoon. It's super scary. Is it possible that too much travel once almost 5-6 weeks now caused him too much stress he cannot handle? I'm super worried about him, these two months were pure hell for us, to see what's happening with him, and after a little hope that he was cured the same symptoms are coming back again. Also, I'm not happy about the hospitalization at all. What do you think guys?

(P.S.: he is about a 10-month-old male panther chameleon, and we went through with the vet every step of his threatening conditions. Also, the only difference between yesterday's visit and the previous ones is that now he got some vitamin-A because he started shedding meanwhile but it took so much time..it started 3 weeks ago and it's still happening)

 

[Mitcchar]

So right off the bat, chameleons do not nap like humans, and it is not a good sign. If you want to, a husbandry review might help us narrow down the problem if there is one with the husbandry.

 

[Mitcchar]

Here is that husbandry review form

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with, and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long do you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high-traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

-Current Problem

 

[Lacieee]

So right off the bat, chameleons do not nap like humans, and it is not a good sign. If you want to, a husbandry review might help us narrow down the problem if there is one with the husbandry.

Hi Mitcchar, thanks for the answer! I reviewed the husband with two vets before, and we fixed and set everything. I know that napping is a very bad sign, and I'm sure that it has to be some connection to the multitude of treatments, or the vitamin-A he got yesterday. I just don't know what to do now. I wrote my vet an e-mail and waiting for his response, but I'm super scared and worried, Sergio has never done this before.

 

[Mitcchar]

Has he been getting vitamin A through supplements, and if so which ones

 

[Lacieee]

Has he been getting vitamin A through supplements, and if so which ones

He got it from the vet through injection. That was the first time. I'd just mentioned it because at their treatments he never got vitamin A before.

 

[Mitcchar]

so for supplements it is recommended that you use calcium without D3 every day and then something like the 1st and 15th of every month you use a multivitamin such as Reptivite or Repashy calcium plus LoD

 

[Mitcchar]

Pictures of him might help as well.

 

[Lacieee]

Yes, I do that. Our problem is now that he currently doesn't eat, doesn't drink, doesn't poop, doesn't do anything just sitting with his eyes closed. I'm attaching a picture.

 

[Mitcchar]

Hmmm, I’m not sure what’s going on with your little guy. @Beman and @kinyonga will probably have some good input to add

 

[Beman]

I would really need detailed husbandry info and a picture of the entire enclosure from the lighting down so I can rule out husbandry related causes.

 

[Lacieee]

I would really need detailed husbandry info and a picture of the entire enclosure from the lighting down so I can rule out husbandry related causes.

Hi Beman! This is not necessarry, I’ve already discussed the husbandry related things with professional vets. My issue is that I don’t understand why is this behaviour happening right now. Is it can be caused by the stress from the vet examination/threatment? Or the medicine he got from vet?

 

[Mitcchar]

I think if you fill out that form we’ll be able to see if there is a reason in the husbandry that he is stressed out.

 

[Lacieee]

I think if you fill out that form we’ll be able to see if there is a reason in the husbandry that he is stressed out.

I brought him home from vet, and 5 mins later he closed his eyes..it can not coming from husbandry issue

 

[Mitcchar]

Ok

 

[Beman]

Hi Beman! This is not necessarry, I’ve already discussed the husbandry related things with professional vets. My issue is that I don’t understand why is this behaviour happening right now. Is it can be caused by the stress from the vet examination/threatment? Or the medicine he got from vet?

The thing is not all vets are well versed in their actual husbandry. Most people we get here have received very incorrect info from vets and pet stores. Without having the information in the husbandry form and images of the entire enclosure we can not give thorough feedback. We would honestly just be guessing.

All of the things you have mentioned can be linked to multiple things such as... Infection, incorrect UVB lighting, incorrect supplementation/over supplementation, and parasites. So to really give you correct feedback to be able to help you we need the information to rule out possibilities.

So as of now I do not feel comfortable telling you a cause of the behavior as I just do not have the information needed to rule out a husbandry related link causing the overall decline.

 

[Lacieee]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
  • Panther chameleon, male, 10 months, since last September
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • 2-3 times a day. Feeding in the morning, watering 2-3 times with spray. I used filtered tap water. He also has a dripper, I change the water every day -> the same filtered tap water.
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
  • Mostly crickets (4-5 pieces/day), but he likes superworm and waxworm (max 1-2/day), and sometimes cockroaches. He gets food in the morning. The crickets, superworms, cockroaches get fresh vegetables every 2-3 days.
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with, and what is the schedule?
  • Repti planet Calcium, and Calcium+D3, also have a vitamin complex from a local pet store, especially for chameleons. Every day he gets calcium, vitamin and +D3 every 2 weeks.
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long do you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • I have a gardening spray, and I spray the freshly filtered tap water on the plants for 1-2 minutes. Yes, I see Sergio drinking from leaves, but he also has a dripper, he mostly use that.
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • Brown - white -rose. No, he wasn't tested for parasites.
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
  • He has had this medical threatening for 2 months now, almost every week. It started with an eye infection, which evolved into a mouth infection, now it seems that the tear ducts are still infected.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • It's made of glass, but has a ventilation metal grid in the bottom front and on the top. It's 50x50x90 cm.
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • Lightning: https://www.lampak.hu/halogen-izzo-gu10-35w-230v
  • UVB: https://bugs-world.com/termek/reptiles-planet-mega-sun-uvb-izzo-10-0-26w
  • Light schedule: it auto turns on 7:30 AM, and auto turns off 7:30 PM
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
  • On top 30-35 celsius, bottom 25-28 celsius. Night temp lowest: 25. I have a temp and humidity measurer on the top and on the bottom of the terrarium
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
  • 40-50 normally, when I'm watering it's around 80%
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • Yes. Ficus benjamin, schefflerea, guzmania
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high-traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • It's in the living room, next to the tv, on a tv stand. There is a ac in front of the tv, but not directly to the terrarium. The height of the top is about 180 cm from floor.
• Location - Where are you geographically located?
  • Budapest, Hungary

Also here are two images of the terrarium, also supplements:

 

[Mitcchar]

Ok so first off he doesn’t need the calcium with d3 every two weeks that is too much, and d3 can be toxic if overdosed. You need it only twice a month and then the calcium without d3 every day. Your UVB is also incorrect. Those coil bulbs are bad for their UVB in general, @Beman can explain that better, but this is also linked to eye problems. You need a T5HO linear bulb. I recommend the Arcadia 6% or the Reptisun 5.0. His cage is also pretty small, I would recommend a 24x24x48 inch enclosure. (I’m not sure what the conversion is with that and centimeters ) His basking is also way too hot. I would bring it down to 26-29 C.

 

[Mitcchar]

You’ll also want to add in a multivitamin because without this he won’t be getting ample amounts of vitamin A, which could be a reason for his eye problems. So the plain calcium is fine just not the calcium +D3

 

[Lacieee]

Thank you, I'll consider how could I apply these changes asap. But anyway this closed eyes issue is so fresh, and strongly connected to the stress he had during these trips to vet back and forth. Every weeks. Will he just start open his eyes and going to eat/dring by itself?