Eyes Bulging.
- Thread starter xeonic
- Start date
Dr O
Veterinarian
beautiful mouth and anatomy, no worries there.
y’all know by now that i’m always going to stick in something educational when i can. in the excellent first shot, you can see the open space in the roof of the mouth where the nostrils come in. during normal closed mouth chameleon breathing (and most snakes and many lizards), the glottis that you normally see as the open breathing tube on the bottom of the mouth can be actually pushed up into that space, creating an airtight and watertight seal for nasal breathing directly to the lungs. i believe (but am not 100%) that they can push the glottis into either that space or the one that’s further down the hard palate, depending on the situation. both spaces are easily visualized in the photo.
more commonly known; when a snake is swallowing large prey, they have the ability to push the glottis outside the mouth to breathe during a prolonged swallowing. not a cham thing, but that’s why the roof of their mouth has that pit up front. any lizard or snake with a forked tongue would also have the Jacobson’s organ opening behind this one.
y’all know by now that i’m always going to stick in something educational when i can. in the excellent first shot, you can see the open space in the roof of the mouth where the nostrils come in. during normal closed mouth chameleon breathing (and most snakes and many lizards), the glottis that you normally see as the open breathing tube on the bottom of the mouth can be actually pushed up into that space, creating an airtight and watertight seal for nasal breathing directly to the lungs. i believe (but am not 100%) that they can push the glottis into either that space or the one that’s further down the hard palate, depending on the situation. both spaces are easily visualized in the photo.
more commonly known; when a snake is swallowing large prey, they have the ability to push the glottis outside the mouth to breathe during a prolonged swallowing. not a cham thing, but that’s why the roof of their mouth has that pit up front. any lizard or snake with a forked tongue would also have the Jacobson’s organ opening behind this one.
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xeonic
New Member
I had to read that multiple times, and i think I understand the just of it. I'm going to do some reading to better understand. As always thank you Dr O for your assistance. Since I have moved the basking spot I have not seen any swelling. I still however see my chameleon closing one eye an hour before lights out. I have reduced ambient lighting at the sacrifice of the lower foliage to see if this issue is caused by the CF ambient lighting on the sides of the enclosure, If so I will search other options.
I also made some progress on getting him to eat crickets. I have cut the Superworms from his diet. I was able to get him to eat Three crickets one day. He will also take silk and hornworms once and a while. He doesn't have much of an appetite though. Three of any item seems to be his daily max.
I also made some progress on getting him to eat crickets. I have cut the Superworms from his diet. I was able to get him to eat Three crickets one day. He will also take silk and hornworms once and a while. He doesn't have much of an appetite though. Three of any item seems to be his daily max.
djfishygillz
Avid Member
Ok here are the pictures of the inside of his mouth. I see no infection, any other opinions?
That is one mad chameleon I bet in that moment of the picture.
xeonic
New Member
My female Veiled did exactly the same thing with her eyes for two nights running - it never happened bbefore or after so I have no idea why or what caused it. It was only at night and in the morning her eyes returned to normal.
Hmmm. Maybe fill out the how to ask for help questioner so we can get an understanding of your Chameleon husbandry, Maybe there is a link between our two cases.
Actually he is very tame. He doesn't mind as long as I don't hold his mouth open for a long time.
Miss Lily
Chameleon Enthusiast
No point now - she was put to sleep back in March. I kept her temps in the low 80's and was very careful not to feed her too much. She was very healthy until she got Pneumonia last January, which she never recovered fully from.
bwert435
New Member
I love reading your posts, you always put extra info like this in definitely something i never kenw before
xeonic
New Member
I hope that's not a thing to come with my Chameleon.
Dr O
Veterinarian
Miss Lily
Chameleon Enthusiast
I am pretty sure that these two issues were totally unconnected. She was always a healthy girl - lived for 3 years and only laid one clutch of eggs. We thought she had recovered from the pneumonia but the infection took over her whole body and she was unable to fight it in the end.
Zach Valois
New Member
I pretty much agree with everything Dr. O outline. An appropriate and systematic assessment of the situation. Well done.
One other question that crossed my mind though. Could an osmotic imbalance (whatever the cause may be) cause 'puffed' eyes such as observed in this case?
One other question that crossed my mind though. Could an osmotic imbalance (whatever the cause may be) cause 'puffed' eyes such as observed in this case?
xeonic
New Member
Interesting theory. I don't know chameleon anatomy well enough to confirm or find a solution if it is indeed an osmotic imbalance. I Also don't know what would cause an osmotic imbalance in a chameleon's eyes.
Based on what little I know on osmotic imbalance is that there could be a blockage in the permeable membrane, assuming there is permeable membranes in the chameleons eyes. if so It could be blocking fluid from passing due to maybe mucus caused by an infection? Maybe even be solved by thermo regulation, allowing the membrane to expand and contract, allowing molecules to pass though the membrane, and reduce swelling.
xeonic
New Member
Well so far so good. I haven't seen his eyes bulge yet. He is still quite lethargic. But I have made progress with removing superworms from his diet, and properly gutloading crickets using a variation of sandrachameleons dry gutload. His poops are still Two weeks apart
I took him to vet who took a blood sample. They stated his calcium and phosphorus levels are high. Which I think was caused by the superworms. They also stated his glucose levels are high, stating that is a symptom of infection? I have never heard of diagnosing an infection like this before. The vet prescribed Baytril and sent me on my way with a hefty bill. I haven't used the Baytril is it makes me nervous and feel they don't actually know if there is an infection.
I took him to vet who took a blood sample. They stated his calcium and phosphorus levels are high. Which I think was caused by the superworms. They also stated his glucose levels are high, stating that is a symptom of infection? I have never heard of diagnosing an infection like this before. The vet prescribed Baytril and sent me on my way with a hefty bill. I haven't used the Baytril is it makes me nervous and feel they don't actually know if there is an infection.
