Feeling Guilty Keeping my Cham captive :(

[rajon1080]

My ambilobe male is 4 1/2 months old. I got him at 2 months and he's been slow to aclimate and has gotten much better but is still skidish and tries to avoid me. I've noticed that since i've been letting him out on a free range when I'm around, he's been constantly searching for a way out of his cage. I sort of feel guilty watching him constantly trying to escape knowing he feels trapped. While I try my best to provide the best habitat for him to thrive and be happy, I wonder how ethical it is to keep him if he will never be happy. I just wanted to share my thoughts on this, and hear some other opinions...

 

[boosh96]

My ambilobe male is 4 1/2 months old. I got him at 2 months and he's been slow to aclimate and has gotten much better but is still skidish and tries to avoid me. I've noticed that since i've been letting him out on a free range when I'm around, he's been constantly searching for a way out of his cage. I sort of feel guilty watching him constantly trying to escape knowing he feels trapped. While I try my best to provide the best habitat for him to thrive and be happy, I wonder how ethical it is to keep him if he will never be happy. I just wanted to share my thoughts on this, and hear some other opinions...

Maybe you could keep him on a full-time free range or just a cageless enclosure? It's probably going to take a lot of work, but having a happy chameleon is worth it.

 

[Juliaf3]

what are your cage dimensions? maybe he needs a bigger cage. I struggle with the same thoughts so I just keep making bigger cages and free range as much as possible.


Id definitely feel worse if they were wild caught. How ever, mine are not. They are from a long line of captivity.

 

[fuzzhc]

If it's glass I've found they always try to get out aswell until I stick them in their adult cages

 

[fluxlizard]

Constant hand feeding for while (month or two) can go a long way towards helping overcome fear.

 

[Devokid]

Most of my panthers are happy in their cages and rarely come out when I leave the door open, although they do seem to enjoy going outside. Their cages are 4' X 4' X 6'.
My Jackson's are a different story. The males are always searching for a way out. (Same size enclosures).
I'm not sure if it is really a species thing, or if it is just varying personalities of the chameleons. For the skittishness, I agree with Flux, hand feed them.

 

[laurie]

A lot of us have faced that moral question. I still question it sometimes and I have kept chams for a lot of years. I have known some wonderful keepers leave the hobby because they decided they were wrong to keep a cham in a cage.

I few years ago I bought a w/c quad male. For 3 days he clawed at his cage. I couldn't take it. Here is the result.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/stage-one-progress-thoughts-62191/

https://www.chameleonforums.com/here-part-two-lennys-home-62209/

He lived as free as I could make him in his own room. Broke my heart when I lost Lenny.

All my chams are in cages most of the time now.

 

[pigglett79]

This room is how I deal with those feelings.....

It belongs to them except for my desk where I work from. It is sort of nice to work in a forest with lizards roaming around though

 

[rajon1080]

Free Range Q's? where to get HUGE cage?

hey everyone,

I've been thinking about the perminant free range/ a bigger enclosure for some time and I see some pros and cons to both.

For one the biggest cages I have found that you can buy (and not build yourself--not sure i trust myself w that) are 2 x 2 x 4. I want a bigger space for him. The other thing I've been thinking of was to try and find a huge old china cabinet that i could convert.

On the other hand, while a perminant free range seems much better, I don't know how I would keep him hydrated without damaging my floor, and keep him fed without escapees.

Anyone have any solutions for these free range concerns, or maybe know where i could get a HUGE cage instead?

Thanks - kj

 

[Psychobunny]

I feel the same way, I hate having to keep them caged up, and feel bad
when they beg to come out, and I cant let them.
That's why I made a large, elaborate free range.
Trouble is, I cant leave them out, and I cant let Smeagol out with any of my other chams because he is too terratorial and will attack them.
All my other guyz are fine together on the free range, but I still always supervise.
Unlike birds, even if I put a vine directly from their cage to the free range, once out, they are not inclinded to return home and I need to collect them, which they never like very much

 

[Olimpia]

With commercial cages the larger you go the more expensive they get, sometimes ridiculously so! I know that this site sells very large screen and metal cages: http://www.bigappleherp.com/REPTILE-SUPPLIES/Reptile-Habitats-Cages-Screen-Metal

I know that one of these is about $300-400, which isn't horrible perhaps but for the same money you could probably pay someone to make you something custom that would fit your tastes better. It depends on what you're willing to spend, really. I do know that Craigslist is always full of extra large parrot cages/aviaries for sale, usually for a tiny fraction of what they would cost you new. At least here in Miami, where a lot of people get into exotic birds and then very quickly get out again!

I've done both, had large cages and free ranges and I think they are equally happy in a large cage. In a large enough cage they really don't feel crowded or corned so you have the benefit of the space but the comfort of knowing they are safely confined.

 

[Carlton]

My ambilobe male is 4 1/2 months old. I got him at 2 months and he's been slow to aclimate and has gotten much better but is still skidish and tries to avoid me. I've noticed that since i've been letting him out on a free range when I'm around, he's been constantly searching for a way out of his cage. I sort of feel guilty watching him constantly trying to escape knowing he feels trapped. While I try my best to provide the best habitat for him to thrive and be happy, I wonder how ethical it is to keep him if he will never be happy. I just wanted to share my thoughts on this, and hear some other opinions...

First, remind yourself of a couple of things: he is not wc...he's been raised in a captive situation so isn't pining away for the "wild". Second, he's now a "teenager" so may be restless as his hormones may be kicking in. If your cage is still his baby cage, he's outgrown it. I've also had chams who stressed in a cage settle down in the same clump of live plants in the same place, but simply removed the cage around it.

Whether you end up free ranging him all the time or not will depend on what space you have available and how safe you can make it. If you have a room that you can close off from pets or other hazards, free ranging near a nice window can work.

 

[rajon1080]

If your cage is still his baby cage, he's outgrown it. QUOTE]

Carlton,

First, I love the quote in your signature!

As for my boy, he's in an 18 18 36. He's also pretty small for 4 1/2 months, I think. Aside from his escape efforts, do you think this is too small a space for 4.5 m.o panther generally?

I was under the impression I should have his forever enclosure by maybe 10 months...

- kevin

 

[Carlton]

If your cage is still his baby cage, he's outgrown it. QUOTE]

Carlton,

First, I love the quote in your signature!

As for my boy, he's in an 18 18 36. He's also pretty small for 4 1/2 months, I think. Aside from his escape efforts, do you think this is too small a space for 4.5 m.o panther generally?

I was under the impression I should have his forever enclosure by maybe 10 months...

- kevin

Well, chams are individuals, so what might work for one might not work for another. It could be that since he now realizes there are fun places to visit outside the cage that's where he prefers to go. Not unusual at all. Can he see his "free range" area from the cage? Is it higher off the floor than his cage? Can he see a sunny window from the cage? These may be attracting him and making him more restless. Or, there is something distracting near the cage he's trying to get away from?

 

[PCD]

With commercial cages the larger you go the more expensive they get, sometimes ridiculously so! I know that this site sells very large screen and metal cages: http://www.bigappleherp.com/REPTILE-SUPPLIES/Reptile-Habitats-Cages-Screen-Metal

I know that one of these is about $300-400, which isn't horrible perhaps but for the same money you could probably pay someone to make you something custom that would fit your tastes better. It depends on what you're willing to spend, really. I do know that Craigslist is always full of extra large parrot cages/aviaries for sale, usually for a tiny fraction of what they would cost you new. At least here in Miami, where a lot of people get into exotic birds and then very quickly get out again!

I've done both, had large cages and free ranges and I think they are equally happy in a large cage. In a large enough cage they really don't feel crowded or corned so you have the benefit of the space but the comfort of knowing they are safely confined.

Was on a site yesterday where they STARTED at 3 grand

I am very new to Chameleons, but I'm going to 24x24x48_Or_ ADDING that size to my existing 18x18x36. It would be very simple to remove the screen on one side from both enclosures, then some 1/2 inch angle aluminium around the top and bottom for rigidity, perhaps with a few fasteners in the middle.

Would provide a very large enclosure, not waste my existing one, give him a 4 foot height on one side, and be 3 1/3 feet wide.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

Peter

 

[Carlton]

Was on a site yesterday where they STARTED at 3 grand

I am very new to Chameleons, but I'm going to 24x24x48_Or_ ADDING that size to my existing 18x18x36. It would be very simple to remove the screen on one side from both enclosures, then some 1/2 inch angle aluminium around the top and bottom for rigidity, perhaps with a few fasteners in the middle.

Would provide a very large enclosure, not waste my existing one, give him a 4 foot height on one side, and be 3 1/3 feet wide.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

Peter

Sounds like a nice space!

 

[rajon1080]

Well, chams are individuals, so what might work for one might not work for another. It could be that since he now realizes there are fun places to visit outside the cage that's where he prefers to go. Not unusual at all. Can he see his "free range" area from the cage? Is it higher off the floor than his cage? Can he see a sunny window from the cage? These may be attracting him and making him more restless. Or, there is something distracting near the cage he's trying to get away from?

His cage is right next to the free range area. His cage is very high off the ground--only enough space for his lights on top then the ceiling. The free range goes a bout a foot higher. Both are in front of nice sunny windows.


Mind you this is in my bedroom. I wish I could figure a mist/drainage system without damaging the walls or floor..... I've made the trap feeders from a sunny d bottle before It's worked really well for me so I'm not really concerned on that end. A few loose crickets won't kill me.

 

[absolutbill]

What I do for my drainage is to buy a plastic utility sink at Lowe's. They have a drain at the bottom, and a 24x24x48 screened cage fits perfectly on top. I remove the bottom of the cage so that the cham has about 2' more vertical space. I place my plants in pots on the floor of the sink, and place a piece of screen under the pots, but on top of the hole for the drain. Then, under the drain I place a 6 gal. carboy to collect the water. You can attach a piece of PVC pipe to the drain if your bucket doesn't sit as high as the bottom of the sink. Then, about once a week I take the carboy to the back porch and use that water to water my plants. Good luck!