Female cham acting lethargic

[salish_31]

I first noticed my female cham who is around 4-5 months (we think), started walking around the sides and top of her cage and would fall asleep on the sides of her screen enclosure. She did this once before for a day or two so I thought nothing of it. But she has been doing it for about a week. When just yesterday I noticed she was staying in one spot all day. She refused to eat from the bowl I was holding up to her so I put the bowl where it usually goes thinking she was just being shy. I checked later that night and no bugs were gone. Today, she was in the same spot she was the day before. I offered super worms, and she ate nothing. I did the same thing with leaving the bowl in her cage, and she has not taken any of the food. I will insert some photos but I am not sure why she is acting this way. I do not think she is gravid, but I noticed she got a little wide around her stomach. I did add in superworms to her diet, so maybe she gained weight. Thankfully she has not had closed eyes during the day. But she stopped going around her cage and just has been sitting in her sleeping spot all curled up. And she does not run away when I come up to her like she normally does. I have no idea if something is even wrong, so any ideas or input would be very very helpful.



The first two photos are how she fell asleep one night (though she is awake in the photo). And the last three are of how she has been siting all day now.

 

[Mitcchar]

Filling this out will really help other keepers narrow down any problems
Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[Beman]

Please fill out the form. Also take a pic of the enclosure so we can see the entire set up of the cage from the lighting to the bottom.

 

[salish_31]

Sorry it took me so long to get back you everyone. I will attach some photos of her cage.

Your Chameleon - veiled, female, we think to be 4-5 months but not fully sure. Had her for around a month.

• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? I had to once because we had to adjust a plant in her cage. No hissing or any biting just walked up my arm. Have not handled since.
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? I feed her crickets, black soldier fly larve, wax worms as treats, and 2-3 super-worms daily. Gut load with almost all of the gutloading fruits and veggies I could get my hand on. Blended them up and froze them into little ice-cubes.
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with, and what is the schedule? I am using calcium without d3 every feeding and the reptivite with d3 multi every two weeks
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long do you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? I must for 45 sec every 12 hours and a water drip every once in a while to give her access to more water if needed
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? She has a half orange white thingy. The rest of her poop is a normal brown color and looks a little wet but not watery.
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. Not really that I can think of

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? It’s a medium screen enclosure. Looking to get an XL but it was not available when I got her
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?her lights are the Arcadia 7% her lights turn on at 9 and off at 9
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Basking spot is 78-82 usually and the lowest spot is 70 overnight lowest is 65 measure temps with a reptile thermometer
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? Humidity during the day is usually 50-60 and around 40 at night
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? I am using a pothos
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high-traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? She is on my dresser in my room which is a very low traffic area in my home
• Location - Where are you geographically located? Florida

​

 

[salish_31]

Here are these. You can see my Cham on the top left corner of her cage.

 

[Mitcchar]

She definitely needs a bigger cage ASAP. I think I seen one but just in case also make sure there is a lay bin in there for her to lay eggs if she is gravid. That’s what I was thinking for now but I’m sure @Beman had a lot better advice as well!

 

[salish_31]

She definitely needs a bigger cage ASAP. I think I seen one but just in case also make sure there is a lay bin in there for her to lay eggs if she is gravid. That’s what I was thinking for now but I’m sure @Beman had a lot better advice as well!

I got a laying bin in there but she keep on pooping in it so I feel like its unsanitary for her to lay eggs in there, I do clean it out. I also want to keep it in there because my cham is super sensitive to any changes in her cage and I want to prevent egg binding. Not sure what to do about her pooping in it though.

 

[Beman]

So give a bit to go through everything for your husbandry review.

 

[Beman]

See my feedback in red bold. Let me know what questions you have.



Your Chameleon - veiled, female, we think to be 4-5 months but not fully sure. Had her for around a month.

• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? I had to once because we had to adjust a plant in her cage. No hissing or any biting just walked up my arm. Have not handled since.
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? I feed her crickets, black soldier fly larve, wax worms as treats, and 2-3 super-worms daily. Gut load with almost all of the gutloading fruits and veggies I could get my hand on. Blended them up and froze them into little ice-cubes. Great. How many feeders would you say you are giving per day?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with, and what is the schedule? I am using calcium without d3 every feeding and the reptivite with d3 multi every two weeks. This is perfect.
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long do you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? I must for 45 sec every 12 hours and a water drip every once in a while to give her access to more water if needed. So this is not enough. A dripper should be added in the afternoons so that it runs for a few hours. Misting sessions need to be at least 2 minutes to fully coat the plants and provide plenty of water on the leaves to drink from.
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? She has a half orange white thingy. The rest of her poop is a normal brown color and looks a little wet but not watery.
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. Not really that I can think of

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? It’s a medium screen enclosure. Looking to get an XL but it was not available when I got her. So this enclosure you have is meant for very young chameleons. She has now outgrown this size. This is another good option for the XL cage. https://www.diycages.com/collection...ducts/sc4-48x24x24-jumbo-vertical-screen-cage
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?her lights are the Arcadia 7% her lights turn on at 9 and off at 9. Unfortunately this UVB fixture and Type is completely wrong. This one is made for animals like geckos that require a lower UVI and UVA ratio. You will need to replace the entire set up because you can not use the fixture for this Shade dweller bulb with another UVB strength. You will want to get the T5HO fixture and the 6% bulb in a 24 inch length. Then you have to have vines or branches 8-9 inches down from the screen and the new lighting placed on the screen to put her in the correct UVI level. Right now she is not getting the UVB/UVA she needs. The arcadia ProT5 24 inch with the 6% bulb is what I would buy. This is the major issue for her and should be corrected asap.
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Basking spot is 78-82 usually and the lowest spot is 70 overnight lowest is 65 measure temps with a reptile thermometer.. Basking for a female should be more like 78-80 max.
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? Humidity during the day is usually 50-60 and around 40 at night
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? I am using a pothos.. Remove the towel from the side of the cage. This is going to get nasty with the moisture from the cage. you can use corrugated plastic panels for the two sides and the back to prevent overspray and make her feel more secure.
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high-traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? She is on my dresser in my room which is a very low traffic area in my home
• Location - Where are you geographically located? Florida

So what I am seeing as the major issues is the UVB so that should be corrected asap. Cage size. Then the amount of vines. Chams like to be up high. there are no vines at the heights higher in the cage. So she is staying on the walls. Also adding a larger centerpiece plant to fill out the cage giving her more areas to hide in will be helpful...

UVB bulbs are responsible for creating strong bones but also it stimulates their appetite. When they do not have the correct UVB they start to decline and become more susceptible to illness.

Pull the puppy pads out of the cage. You need a drip plan that you either have drain into a bucket or you can wet vac. Something like this will work well and accommodate the 2x2x4 cage she needs to be in. https://www.amazon.com/DiversiTech-6-2626L-Drain-Plastic-Large/dp/B014GZCIHW/ref=sr_1_7?crid=ZQH3QNSKGWDC&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.ix0f5tCBKvIcuTDrK3mniy8_IjsuTo5p9AtSeR8y2eYP22DlLdhKmC2ud8mgdkROE_OIDnkr75SvGAR5PH41-ovgXm3ToHtdKX75YeBsusIyCZl0dOgoOXqDac38mdt9IjTE1U8qnObxScLHciC4NLG2WwgzMjbOzPcroOtJXio3FXXISu_VOWBH87RpnjiHS8R6Gjq-vDS7Pfy2a_mcgaXDndk-qvpdOTj04euD2O1VaP8fkhHPJZ7JsWTyWv8TTnupoxqrq86Vc8n6OcvpGq3E2GLvEpZGk9n5azR9s7Q.nQfqs5s3oANXkq6pJWHx_L58a-4Zg5JdWuU6p2yQfFs&dib_tag=se&keywords=square+water+heater+pan+with+drain&qid=1708723319&sprefix=square+water+heater+pan+with+drain,aps,137&sr=8-7&th=1

You can buy dragon ledges to assist with mounting branches to the cage higher along with plants as well. https://dragonstrand.com/dragon-ledges/

Read through this for proper set up of the cage. https://chameleonacademy.com/setting-up-a-chameleon-cage/

Choose veiled tested centerpiece plant...

 

[salish_31]

See my feedback in red bold. Let me know what questions you have.



Your Chameleon - veiled, female, we think to be 4-5 months but not fully sure. Had her for around a month.

• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? I had to once because we had to adjust a plant in her cage. No hissing or any biting just walked up my arm. Have not handled since.
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? I feed her crickets, black soldier fly larve, wax worms as treats, and 2-3 super-worms daily. Gut load with almost all of the gutloading fruits and veggies I could get my hand on. Blended them up and froze them into little ice-cubes. Great. How many feeders would you say you are giving per day?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with, and what is the schedule? I am using calcium without d3 every feeding and the reptivite with d3 multi every two weeks. This is perfect.
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long do you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? I must for 45 sec every 12 hours and a water drip every once in a while to give her access to more water if needed. So this is not enough. A dripper should be added in the afternoons so that it runs for a few hours. Misting sessions need to be at least 2 minutes to fully coat the plants and provide plenty of water on the leaves to drink from.
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? She has a half orange white thingy. The rest of her poop is a normal brown color and looks a little wet but not watery.
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. Not really that I can think of

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? It’s a medium screen enclosure. Looking to get an XL but it was not available when I got her. So this enclosure you have is meant for very young chameleons. She has now outgrown this size. This is another good option for the XL cage. https://www.diycages.com/collection...ducts/sc4-48x24x24-jumbo-vertical-screen-cage
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?her lights are the Arcadia 7% her lights turn on at 9 and off at 9. Unfortunately this UVB fixture and Type is completely wrong. This one is made for animals like geckos that require a lower UVI and UVA ratio. You will need to replace the entire set up because you can not use the fixture for this Shade dweller bulb with another UVB strength. You will want to get the T5HO fixture and the 6% bulb in a 24 inch length. Then you have to have vines or branches 8-9 inches down from the screen and the new lighting placed on the screen to put her in the correct UVI level. Right now she is not getting the UVB she needs to prevent MBD. The arcadia ProT5 24 inch with the 6% bulb is what I would buy. This is the major issue for her and should be corrected asap.
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Basking spot is 78-82 usually and the lowest spot is 70 overnight lowest is 65 measure temps with a reptile thermometer.. Basking for a female should be more like 78-80 max.
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? Humidity during the day is usually 50-60 and around 40 at night
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? I am using a pothos.. Remove the towel from the side of the cage. This is going to get nasty with the moisture from the cage. you can use corrugated plastic panels for the two sides and the back to prevent overspray and make her feel more secure.
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high-traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? She is on my dresser in my room which is a very low traffic area in my home
• Location - Where are you geographically located? Florida

So what I am seeing as the major issues is the UVB so that should be corrected asap. Cage size. Then the amount of vines. Chams like to be up high. there are no vines at the heights higher in the cage. So she is staying on the walls. Also adding a larger centerpiece plant to fill out the cage giving her more areas to hide in will be helpful...

UVB bulbs are responsible for creating strong bones but also it stimulates their appetite. When they do not have the correct UVB they start to decline and become more susceptible to illness.

Pull the puppy pads out of the cage. You need a drip plan that you either have drain into a bucket or you can wet vac. Something like this will work well and accommodate the 2x2x4 cage she needs to be in. https://www.amazon.com/DiversiTech-6-2626L-Drain-Plastic-Large/dp/B014GZCIHW/ref=sr_1_7?crid=ZQH3QNSKGWDC&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.ix0f5tCBKvIcuTDrK3mniy8_IjsuTo5p9AtSeR8y2eYP22DlLdhKmC2ud8mgdkROE_OIDnkr75SvGAR5PH41-ovgXm3ToHtdKX75YeBsusIyCZl0dOgoOXqDac38mdt9IjTE1U8qnObxScLHciC4NLG2WwgzMjbOzPcroOtJXio3FXXISu_VOWBH87RpnjiHS8R6Gjq-vDS7Pfy2a_mcgaXDndk-qvpdOTj04euD2O1VaP8fkhHPJZ7JsWTyWv8TTnupoxqrq86Vc8n6OcvpGq3E2GLvEpZGk9n5azR9s7Q.nQfqs5s3oANXkq6pJWHx_L58a-4Zg5JdWuU6p2yQfFs&dib_tag=se&keywords=square+water+heater+pan+with+drain&qid=1708723319&sprefix=square+water+heater+pan+with+drain,aps,137&sr=8-7&th=1

You can buy dragon ledges to assist with mounting branches to the cage higher along with plants as well. https://dragonstrand.com/dragon-ledges/

Read through this for proper set up of the cage. https://chameleonacademy.com/setting-up-a-chameleon-cage/

Choose veiled tested centerpiece plant...

View attachment 353534

Thanks so much for all of the info. I will get on that right away. It will probally be about a week until I can get everything set up. will she be okay in that time?

 

[Beman]

Thanks so much for all of the info. I will get on that right away. It will probally be about a week until I can get everything set up. will she be okay in that time?

You will have to get the new UVB asap... I would not wait a week for this. Either the one I mentioned or a zoomed T5HO fixture and 5.0 UVB bulb will work. Then you need to get more vines to put in so she can get 8-9 inches below it so she has access to the uvb she needs. You can hook those vines to your screen with floral wire just make sure the sharps of the wire are on the outside of the cage only so she can not get hurt on them.

When they start declining like this you want to make changes like this very fast. UVB is the most important aspect then everything else falls in line behind it.

The bigger cage could wait a few weeks along with the other stuff I mentioned.

 

[salish_31]

You will have to get the new UVB asap... I would not wait a week for this. Either the one I mentioned or a zoomed T5HO fixture and 5.0 UVB bulb will work. Then you need to get more vines to put in so she can get 8-9 inches below it so she has access to the uvb she needs. You can hook those vines to your screen with floral wire just make sure the sharps of the wire are on the outside of the cage only so she can not get hurt on them.

When they start declining like this you want to make changes like this very fast. UVB is the most important aspect then everything else falls in line behind it.

The bigger cage could wait a few weeks along with the other stuff I mentioned.

Thanks for letting me know. Hope she will be okay.

 

[Beman]

Thanks for letting me know. Hope she will be okay.

She should be, just get the lighting and vines then she will be able to get what she needs. You should see a change in appetite within the first week of having the correct UVB.

 

[salish_31]

She should be, just get the lighting and vines then she will be able to get what she needs. You should see a change in appetite within the first week of having the correct UVB.

I just ordered the uvb bulb and fixture. There were none in any nearby pet stores so I had to buy online. I payed for sooner shipping and it is supposed to come in 4-5 days. I was able to get her to eat today. I just hope she can stay okay until the bulb comes :/

 

[Beman]

I just ordered the uvb bulb and fixture. There were none in any nearby pet stores so I had to buy online. I payed for sooner shipping and it is supposed to come in 4-5 days. I was able to get her to eat today. I just hope she can stay okay until the bulb comes :/

Can you share with me what you ordered so I can double check it?

 

[salish_31]

Sure, let me send what I got real quick.

 

[salish_31]

I got the 24 inch pangea T5 Ho fixture and the Zoo Med repti sun 22 T5 HO 5.0. I looked it up and the bulb should be compatible with the fixture.

 

[Beman]

I got the 24 inch pangea T5 Ho fixture and the Zoo Med repti sun 22 T5 HO 5.0. I looked it up and the bulb should be compatible with the fixture.

Perfect.