female ready to lay??

[Kent67]

Yeah, I've got some really *cough* great pictures of myself holding some babies from my first clutches in '92.

It's actually been a few years since I've had any eggs, but I did build an incubator back in the early 90's that I still use today. Back then, everyone incubated at a constant 80-82 degrees for the duration! How things have changed huh? Now, I guess I'm just lazy. I set the incubator for around 75 and it fluctuates a little either way and I just wait for them to hatch. Still just seems to take 7-8 months for me. Basically, if you have good eggs and avoid extreme temperatures, they'll hatch eventually. Off to school!

 

[danielle609]

Yeah, I've got some really *cough* great pictures of myself holding some babies from my first clutches in '92.

You should share some of thoses pics I am sure we would all love to see them I haven't looked in her cage at all yet today, I plan on doing so a little before I have to go back to school. I am just hoping she lays them sooner than later....I am getting very anxious. I did set up her incubating boxes, one vermiculite and one perlite, but I don't like the texture of the perlite, so I think I am going to toss it. The vermiculite feels more "natural" .

So you said "off to school", are you going to school or do you teach??

Dani

 

[Kent67]

Luckily, I don't own a scanner!

I know how nerve racking it can be. I've got a girl here who should be due to lay soon (although infertile) and I wish she'd start. Still eating like a pig though...

Oh, and I'm just a student too. I took a semester off and it turned into 8 years. I'm finally about to get my bachelor's now.

 

[Kent67]

Oops, that stayed up there somehow and I double posted it.

 

[danielle609]

Congrats on the almost bachelors! What are you majoring in?? Speaking of school I am going to be leaving in about 5 min. But I just checked on her, no eggs but she was perched on her branch with a nice clump of dirt on her nose . Have a good one I am off to "learn" how to clean teeth

Dani

 

[kinyonga]

Its never too late Kent!

I went back and took my GRADE 13 biology a couple of years ago. I did that because all the way through school, if I had to take science I chose chemistry or physics...and I decided that I should finally take some biology (because of the critters). Didn't know where to start...so I thought maybe high school would give me a beginning and get me used to taking courses again! I did okay too...after being out of school for well over 8 years....80%.

 

[Kent67]

I'm doing anthropology, hoping to be able to get into grad school next. At least I've found something that I'm really interested in now! That and it's been a lot of fun to go back, made some good new friends....

 

[danielle609]

Its never too late Kent!

I went back and took my GRADE 13 biology a couple of years ago. I did that because all the way through school, if I had to take science I chose chemistry or physics...and I decided that I should finally take some biology (because of the critters). Didn't know where to start...so I thought maybe high school would give me a beginning and get me used to taking courses again! I did okay too...after being out of school for well over 8 years....80%.

An 80% after over 8 years is awesome, I would happily take that and It has only been about 4 years since my last biology class!

I have friend going for anthropology, she is loving it. I felt like an ass though when I asked her if that was the study of bugs.... I think it was the ant part that caught me off gaurd

 

[PardalisGirl]

So how's your girl doing Dani? I've been off my computer for a few days and just found this thread. So much excitement and so much waiting! This is very stressful for you, to be sure. The first time females lay can often be like this. It's seems like they learn, and just get to it the second time around. If she has not laid yet, you might try making her nest container more private. If the depth and size are good it may be a matter of privacy. I cover my nest containers partially with artifical vines/foliage to make it feel like it is at the base of a plant and very hidden. I've also tried putting the female in that "hidden" container and walking away quickly. I've done this several times with one female and then she finally just stayed and finished the job. I would keep her in her cage like you have. Moving her now is just going to confuse her. She knows what she needs to do. Keeping my fingers crossed

 

[danielle609]

So how's your girl doing Dani? I've been off my computer for a few days and just found this thread. So much excitement and so much waiting! This is very stressful for you, to be sure. The first time females lay can often be like this. It's seems like they learn, and just get to it the second time around. If she has not laid yet, you might try making her nest container more private. If the depth and size are good it may be a matter of privacy. I cover my nest containers partially with artifical vines/foliage to make it feel like it is at the base of a plant and very hidden. I've also tried putting the female in that "hidden" container and walking away quickly. I've done this several times with one female and then she finally just stayed and finished the job. I would keep her in her cage like you have. Moving her now is just going to confuse her. She knows what she needs to do. Keeping my fingers crossed

I was actually thinking about sending you a private message, seeing as you were the main poster on my last thread, but you beat me to the punch I am hoping this is just because it is her first. I am getting really stressed though because this is her 5th day of digging but then again only 22 days since breeding. I have mostly heard of most laying after 2 days of digging. I am starting to get worried because she looks so tired. I checked the pot today and the bottom is very wet due to her misting this morning (I should still be misting her right?) and I am pretty sure she has dug to the bottom, so I want to get a larger pot tomorrow and put some vines around it. Will they only lay there eggs during the day, or will they sometimes do it at night? Sorry for all the questions, I am just a paranoid newbie trying to make sure everything goes perfect and you guys have been great at responding to my questions!

 

[Kent67]

Whoa. Do you mean the soil in the pot is really wet?? So wet that she might think her eggs would drown? Hopefully that's not it and she's just not been ready yet but that caught my eye.

Since she can't see well at night she won't want to be on the ground. Of course, if it looks like she's doing something important you can always extend daytime a bit to let her finish too. Sure hope Friday's the day.

 

[danielle609]

Whoa. Do you mean the soil in the pot is really wet?? So wet that she might think her eggs would drown? Hopefully that's not it and she's just not been ready yet but that caught my eye.

Since she can't see well at night she won't want to be on the ground. Of course, if it looks like she's doing something important you can always extend daytime a bit to let her finish too. Sure hope Friday's the day.

yeah her soil is wet at the bottom. Its not terrible(not sopping wet), but I think it is from me misting her, so today I am getting a larger container, and I am going to make sure it doesn't get too wet. I also hope today is the day, that is why I want to make sure her laying substrate is adequate. Will virgin chameleons usually start digging early, and dig for a longer period, because she has been at it since Sunday? Her soil wasn't too damp yesterday morning, so this problem is a recent one. I just want her to lay her eggs so that I know everything is okay! I think I am going crazy, my mind is constantly on her, even in my dreams

 

[danielle609]

I just went to change pots, and I found 26 eggs at the bottom of the pot. So she must have layed them yesterday. I found her in her pot around 8 last night looking really tired, so that must have been why. But she didn't look that much smaller. Do you think 26 is all of them? I am going to put the pot back in just incase. How important is it to not rotate them the day after they were layed, because I wasn't being too careful, I had no idea they were in there. None got smushed or anything, but I was taking the dirt out handfuls at a time, and placing into another bucket when I found them, so I am sure I rotated them. I am also worried about the moisture in the pot, I will post pictures after I get out of class. I think they look okay, they remind me up a white jelly belly. But I would love for you guys to let me know what you think. Is 26 eggs an okay number? Is that about average? But I really have to get to class I will post pics in a litle bit of the eggs and her. I have a pinkie mouse waiting at the pet store, is that okay to give to her?? Thanks you guys a lot for everything, now I am just hoping I didn't ruin her eggs, I would be devestated! I really thought it would be more obvious that 26 eggs came out of her! But I will be back a little later. Thanks!!

Dani (I don't have time to edit this most so if there are really bad spelling error I am sorry )

 

[Kent67]

Congrats Dani! Twenty-six is more towards the upper end of what they will usually lay. She's done. As for rotating panther eggs, you should be able to safely rotate them for a couple weeks (although I wouldn't). They should be fine. You didn't actually say so, by I guess you've moved them to the vermiculite container? I'd get them out of the wet soil asap if not.

Congrats again and let's see those pics!


Edit: Hey you said your friend's pardalis eggs went 10-15 months or whatever. Do you know what locale those were?

 

[PardalisGirl]

Dani's female..........

Don't worry Dani! My first experience was full of stress. My female paced her cage and dug holes for almost 7 days before she laid. She laid another clutch months later and she did it immediately the second time. Your female knows there is something in her belly that needs to come out. Her hormones and instinct are prompting this behavior. You are right in counting the days since mating and wondering why she is ready to lay so soon. She has the urges, but the eggs are not quite ready to come out. They have not gone through the changes they need to go through before leaving the protective casing they are in while inside her. They are still going through that final phase. So....she is going through the motions but the eggs are not ready to pop out. If she had been bred six weeks prior to this I would worry about egg binding. Since she is on the really short side of gestation I would really not be too concerned. She knows what to do but those eggs just are not ready.

I would try the bigger pot and partially cover it with vines. In any case, it will make you feel like you are doing something to help her out Try to keep it drier too. You don't want her depositing them in a soggy bottom. That could cause the eggs to spoil if you don't get them out right away. I have had females lay at night. By the time they get into really digging it is dark and they can't tell it's night time so they keep going. I have had females fall asleep during their digging in the evening and then finish the process up in the morning. I have had them get a super early start in the morning and have it all done and covered up again by the time I woke up. They all seem to do things a bit differently. I would try to keep her hydrated. She will probably not want to eat but you can put a cricket or two in there just in case. Keep us updated Dani....this thread will help a lot of future readers get through the first time too

 

[danielle609]

Okay here is a pic of her and her eggs. Sorry about the quality, I can't ever seem to keep my hand steady....maybe I should lay off the coffee!!

Let me know what you guys think about her and the eggs. I hope they look okay!

 

[danielle609]

Congrats Dani! Twenty-six is more towards the upper end of what they will usually lay. She's done. As for rotating panther eggs, you should be able to safely rotate them for a couple weeks (although I wouldn't). They should be fine. You didn't actually say so, by I guess you've moved them to the vermiculite container? I'd get them out of the wet soil asap if not.

Congrats again and let's see those pics!


Edit: Hey you said your friend's pardalis eggs went 10-15 months or whatever. Do you know what locale those were?

Thanks Kent for the congrats, it feels good to know that she layed them and is eating and drinking! I feel a lot better about the rotating thing. I put them in vermiculite right when I found them. I am glad I took your advice on preparing the incubating box, or I would have been really late for school! So you don't think the soil should have hurt them?? Like I said it wasn't sopping, just more wet than I would have liked it. My friend had all different types of panthers. It was quite a few years ago when she was getting all imports. She actually told me that sometimes her females would come in so sick that she would just cut the eggs out of them. It sounds mean, and I am not sure if I could do it but I can't be the one to judge her.

 

[danielle609]

Don't worry Dani! My first experience was full of stress. My female paced her cage and dug holes for almost 7 days before she laid. She laid another clutch months later and she did it immediately the second time. Your female knows there is something in her belly that needs to come out. Her hormones and instinct are prompting this behavior. You are right in counting the days since mating and wondering why she is ready to lay so soon. She has the urges, but the eggs are not quite ready to come out. They have not gone through the changes they need to go through before leaving the protective casing they are in while inside her. They are still going through that final phase. So....she is going through the motions but the eggs are not ready to pop out. If she had been bred six weeks prior to this I would worry about egg binding. Since she is on the really short side of gestation I would really not be too concerned. She knows what to do but those eggs just are not ready.

I would try the bigger pot and partially cover it with vines. In any case, it will make you feel like you are doing something to help her out Try to keep it drier too. You don't want her depositing them in a soggy bottom. That could cause the eggs to spoil if you don't get them out right away. I have had females lay at night. By the time they get into really digging it is dark and they can't tell it's night time so they keep going. I have had females fall asleep during their digging in the evening and then finish the process up in the morning. I have had them get a super early start in the morning and have it all done and covered up again by the time I woke up. They all seem to do things a bit differently. I would try to keep her hydrated. She will probably not want to eat but you can put a cricket or two in there just in case. Keep us updated Dani....this thread will help a lot of future readers get through the first time too

Thanks Catherine for all of the advice, and I actually bought more vines, substrate and a larger pot. But I might have to wait to use it for a month or so. I posted some pic of her and her eggs if you want to "critique" them

You guys have been such a great help, I seriously probably would have had a heart attack if you guys weren't here guiding me through the process! It is funny I swore I had everything planned, I knew what was going to happen and it was going to be a piece of cake. Everything did go fairly smooth I guess but it is really nerve wrecking! It is nice to have a support system to walk you through the steps. I'm sure I will do the same thing when they start hatching even though I have read like every thread in the breeding section

So she could very possibly lay a 2nd clutch without being bred again right?? So should I leave her pot in or take out until she starts digging in her container that always stays in there?

Thanks again!
Dani

 

[ChromaChameleons]

congrats Danielle... I'm curious.. how long do you estimate the gestation was??

 

[danielle609]

congrats Danielle... I'm curious.. how long do you estimate the gestation was??

She was bred on Labor Day, but didn't turn into the "gravid beast" and still showed receptive colors. So I ended up re-pairing them on that Wednesday(that time she showed gravid colors very shortly after the breeding). So if the Wed. one took then she had a 22 day gestation. So either 22 or 24. (sorry that is kinda a confusing explanation )

Thanks for the congats!
Dani