Female Veiled Diet

[PistachioG]

Ok I figured out why I’m confused even looking at reputable sources in figuring out how to feed Pistachio. I am not breeding her if that helps with suggestions. She does have a lay bin 100% of the time. She is 3 years old. Had her enclosure checked out and all looks good aside from needing to add more branches, which I have done since.

Here’s the info I’ve gathered so far:

Linda Horgan’s article for females says to feed 8-12 feeders every 2-3 days

The care sheet in Chameleonforums for Veiled says to feed 7-10 every other day but that is for both genders it appears

Bill Strand has an article specific for female veiled and it says to feed 2 every other day and this article appears to be specific for breeding?

It seems all have experience with female for many years so maybe there is some variability with what works? Maybe some are not specific enough for a non-bred female hoping to live more than 5 years?

@MissSkittles would love to hear your thoughts considering. I think you said you’ve had good luck with fewer feeders 2-3 days per week and closer to 80 temps vs 85 for basking.

 

[kinyonga]

You said..."Ok I figured out why I’m confused even looking at reputable sources in figuring out how to feed Pistachio. I am not breeding her if that helps with suggestions. She does have a lay bin 100% of the time. She is 3 years old. Had her enclosure checked out and all looks good aside from needing to add more branches, which I have done since"...it is very confusing for sure...there is no definite absolute answer because just like people, some seem to need less food than others to shut off the reproduction.

You said..."Linda Horgan’s article for females says to feed 8-12 feeders every 2-3 days"...when I wrote that I was using medium-ish crickets but neglected to mention that. (I should talk to Brad to see if that can be corrected. @Brad ??)

You said..."The care sheet in Chameleonforums for Veiled says to feed 7-10 every other day but that is for both genders it appears"...I don't know who said this...but what age were they talking about?

You said..."Bill Strand has an article specific for female veiled and it says to feed 2 every other day and this article appears to be specific for breeding?"...I don't know what this would do for one you were breeding...this might help if you're trying to breed...
http://www.chameleonnews.com/03OctDonoghue.html

You said..."It seems all have experience with female for many years so maybe there is some variability with what works? Maybe some are not specific enough for a non-bred female hoping to live more than 5 years?"...I'm sure all have had a lot of experience with this. ...there is variability in what works...and it also depends on whether you want to cut them off reproduction completely or just make the clutch size what they should normally have. If you start by cutting down to about 4 or 5 adult sized crickets (or equivalent in other insects), if they don't stop laying eggs at least the clutch size should be small enough that the female won't develop the follicular stasis, dystocia (egg binding) or MBD and prolapsing that happens when they are overfed. (Don't forget to keep the temperature at 80F approx. too.) You can then cut back a bit more until they no longer lay eggs at all if you want to. You'll figure out the magic number of insects as you go along.

With my veileds, stopping them completely meant they would live for seven or more years as a rule. Hood this helps explain it a bit.

I think @MissSkittles followed what I said?

 

[MissSkittles]

I think @MissSkittles followed what I said?

Yes. It is from you and several other members who I’ve learned from on reducing egg production thru diet and temps. It’s worked very well for my girls feeding them 3-4 medium sized feeders, 3 days a week. I do give a fair amount of treats too, in the form of pupated bsfl (also provides stimulation while they hunt for their treats) and a silkworm as a consolation if I need to bother them for weighing or enclosure maintenance.

 

[PistachioG]

You said..."Ok I figured out why I’m confused even looking at reputable sources in figuring out how to feed Pistachio. I am not breeding her if that helps with suggestions. She does have a lay bin 100% of the time. She is 3 years old. Had her enclosure checked out and all looks good aside from needing to add more branches, which I have done since"...it is very confusing for sure...there is no definite absolute answer because just like people, some seem to need less food than others to shut off the reproduction.

You said..."Linda Horgan’s article for females says to feed 8-12 feeders every 2-3 days"...when I wrote that I was using medium-ish crickets but neglected to mention that. (I should talk to Brad to see if that can be corrected. @Brad ??)

You said..."The care sheet in Chameleonforums for Veiled says to feed 7-10 every other day but that is for both genders it appears"...I don't know who said this...but what age were they talking about?

You said..."Bill Strand has an article specific for female veiled and it says to feed 2 every other day and this article appears to be specific for breeding?"...I don't know what this would do for one you were breeding...this might help if you're trying to breed...
http://www.chameleonnews.com/03OctDonoghue.html

You said..."It seems all have experience with female for many years so maybe there is some variability with what works? Maybe some are not specific enough for a non-bred female hoping to live more than 5 years?"...I'm sure all have had a lot of experience with this. ...there is variability in what works...and it also depends on whether you want to cut them off reproduction completely or just make the clutch size what they should normally have. If you start by cutting down to about 4 or 5 adult sized crickets (or equivalent in other insects), if they don't stop laying eggs at least the clutch size should be small enough that the female won't develop the follicular stasis, dystocia (egg binding) or MBD and prolapsing that happens when they are overfed. (Don't forget to keep the temperature at 80F approx. too.) You can then cut back a bit more until they no longer lay eggs at all if you want to. You'll figure out the magic number of insects as you go along.

With my veileds, stopping them completely meant they would live for seven or more years as a rule. Hood this helps explain it a bit.

I think @MissSkittles followed what I said?

Thank you. The guide in Chameleon Forums says adults eat 7-10 every other day. https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/

I cut down to 4 feeders (fed BSFL) as of today. I’ll stick with that and see how she does and will be sure to keep the basking temp closer to 80 than 85.

 

[PistachioG]

Yes. It is from you and several other members who I’ve learned from on reducing egg production thru diet and temps. It’s worked very well for my girls feeding them 3-4 medium sized feeders, 3 days a week. I do give a fair amount of treats too, in the form of pupated bsfl (also provides stimulation while they hunt for their treats) and a silkworm as a consolation if I need to bother them for weighing or enclosure maintenance.

Yes I offer a treat worm now and then too. Thanks for your time and help. It’s good to pool all these resources together to help find best practice.

 

[kinyonga]

Did you look at the calories in crickets compared to the BSFL to figure out how many BSFL to feed to replace the number of crickets advised?

 

[MissSkittles]

I even feed my male veiled and panther the same to prevent obesity. It’s not working out well for my male veiled and strangely he’s getting fat.

 

[CasqueAbove]

So this is my experience. I feed dubia nymphs but the equivalent of about 4 crickets. More importantly I keep my temps cooler 74 ambient and 80 max basking. I went to this over a year ago. and no clutches till It got a bit warmer and I added about 3 feeders per week. She is about to lay an I hope for a small clutch.
Also I have kept my babies the same 3 are female and at 1 year old have not laid or become gravid. I do feed the males a little more. But this formula seems to be working for me.

 

[PistachioG]

Did you look at the calories in crickets compared to the BSFL to figure out how many BSFL to feed to replace the number of crickets advised?

I have not. Do you have a good resource for this info?

 

[PistachioG]

I have not. Do you have a good resource for this info?

Did you look at the calories in crickets compared to the BSFL to figure out how many BSFL to feed to replace the number of crickets advised?

I’ve been looking around online and I can find protein and fat content but not calorie. I suppose I could do the math with protein at 4 kcal/g and fat at 9 kcal/g. I was just curious if someone had already done this work as I read to feed crickets or equivalent calories many places but no reference to how many calories in different feeders.

 

[kinyonga]

This gives a bit of information...
http://www.chameleonnews.com/02SepDonoghue.html