Female Yemen and plant eating

[Mrjamwin]

@kinyonga He gets mostly Dubias, crickets and a occasional hornworm. I don't see in the photos what you see. Do you mind showing what you see, please?

 

[kinyonga]

I didn't say I saw anything....I asked you if you saw pieces of leaves in its feces.
I'm trying to ask people if they see pieces of leaves in the feces when the chameleon eats leaves and what they are fed so I can keep track of it....learn from it.

 

[Mrjamwin]

I didn't say I saw anything....I asked you if you saw pieces of leaves in its feces.
I'm trying to ask people if they see pieces of leaves in the feces when the chameleon eats leaves and what they are fed so I can keep track of it....learn from it.

I apologize. My man eyes don't always work. I do not see any leaves in his feces. He only seems to bite down on the leaves and that's it. No actual eating of them.

 

[kinyonga]

Thanks!

 

[PetNcs]

@PetNcs ...you said..."Males and females are both eating plant matter in the wild with no difference"...so, if in captivity we feed the chameleons insects that don't require the help of leaves to "move" them through the digestive system is it not possible that they don't eat the leaves in captivity because they don't need the roughage to move the insects through their system?

Is it also not possible that the females eat leaves such as pothos and certain sands looking for more calcium?
Is it not possible for them to be eating them for reasons other than roughage in captivity?

If evolution fixes some behavioral pattern, it is often performwd even without an evident immediate need. So, no, not necessarily. Moreover, mz theory of roughage is just a theory. They need the roughage in the younghood and do nor need itnin the adulthood any more as they have enough roughage from the flying insects...
It is also naive to think we can explain everytjing. We can not. Some mechanisms have evolved under some specific comditions rhat disappeared later but the mechanism was later not elikinated as it was not disdvantaveous or strongly advantageous, rhereflre evolutionarily neutral.
Females
Definitely do not eat Pothos for calcium, ad there is ni pothos in Yemen. And speculations about nutrients is something I do not share. I explained why many times.

 

[PetNcs]

I apologize. My man eyes don't always work. I do not see any leaves in his feces. He only seems to bite down on the leaves and that's it. No actual eating of them.

K have seen hundeeds eamoles if leaves in faeces, nitmonly i Yemen chameleons. If yojnserch CF, I even shared a photo

 

[CasqueAbove]

If evolution fixes some behavioral pattern, it is often performwd even without an evident immediate need.

This is sort of my point. There is no real specific reason, or benefit we can attribute to eating plants.
Could it simply have evolved as a "habit" vs serving some actual purpose.

If something like this started in a population, and it was not detrimental in any way, would evolution get rid of it, or can it remain.

Is it possible that way back in time, there was a need for eating the plants, and the "habit" remained?

 

[PetNcs]

This is sort of my point. There is no real specific reason, or benefit we can attribute to eating plants.
Could it simply have evolved as a "habit" vs serving some actual purpose.

If something like this started in a population, and it was not detrimental in any way, would evolution get rid of it, or can it remain.

Is it possible that way back in time, there was a need for eating the plants, and the "habit" remained?

It is one of the possibilities
Evolution is an process and it fixes or eliminates issues which are beneficial or harmful. It does not touch drastically neutral issues though they are
Also subject of
Modifixations due tk mutations etc.

So, it is quite complex.

Therefore, to think that ever festiee is strictly defined by function is simply not the case.

Moreover, existing steuctures,
Evolved for a different purpose can get new meaning in the selection process if found out to be beneficial for something...

 

[kinyonga]

I know this thread hasn't been active for a while...but I'm still trying to figure out why my females (in captivity) would strip a pothos bare, usually when receptive or gravid, but the males don't. Just because they don't do it in the wild doesn't mean that there isn't a need for something from the plant when they are in captivity....something missing from their captive diet in captivity that isn't missing in the wild.

Petr said..."Definitely do not eat Pothos for calcium, ad there is ni pothos in Yemen. And speculations about nutrients is something I do not share. I explained why many times"...why does it matter what grows in Yemen....if it's available in their captive environment, can there not be something that is cussing them to eat the plant.
They eat different insects in the wild than what we offer them in captivity...and yet they don't refuse them because they afrent in their wild diet.

 

[CasqueAbove]

I know this thread hasn't been active for a while...but I'm still trying to figure out why my females (in captivity) would strip a pothos bare, usually when receptive or gravid, but the males don't. Just because they don't do it in the wild doesn't mean that there isn't a need for something from the plant when they are in captivity....something missing from their captive diet in captivity that isn't missing in the wild.

Petr said..."Definitely do not eat Pothos for calcium, ad there is ni pothos in Yemen. And speculations about nutrients is something I do not share. I explained why many times"...why does it matter what grows in Yemen....if it's available in their captive environment, can there not be something that is cussing them to eat the plant.
They eat different insects in the wild than what we offer them in captivity...and yet they don't refuse them because they afrent in their wild diet.

So to add some captive observations.
1) Some plants are defiantly preferred over others. Hibiscus particularly. My male eats no plants, due to his tongue. However I put in a hibiscus and he began trying to eat it. And he was eating the dries dead leaves.
2) All 6 of my babies started plant munching around 3 months, both male and female. But only softer plants.
3) Newer fresh growth is preferred.
4) My female did not eat hibiscus flowers, just leaves, but would sit and gorge on them, I had to remove it. However she does not touch the orchid leaves, but devours the flowers as soon as they bloom.

I am almost wondering if the plant eating in captivity is actually kind of a mistaken identity. Do some colors or shapes make them look like a sort of insect? Females always trying to gain weight for egg laying, would naturally eat more. If good bugs weren't there maybe they turn to what they believe to be insects.
Do chameleons have a sense of taste and how discerning is it.

 

[kinyonga]

Here's a bit of information on taste...
https://www.jstor.org/stable/1444795
"Taste buds occur in all species examined except Varanus indicus (Varanidae). They are found on the tongues of all remaining species except Gonatodes antillensis (Gekkonidae) and in the oral epithelia of all species except Chamaeleo jacksoni (Chamaeleonidae)."

https://www.madcham.de/en/anatomie/


"At the dorsal surface of the apex of the proximal region of the tongue of C. africana, fungiform papillae, few taste buds"...
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/417c/8e8c5d68b9788907369780147be076208a1a.pdf