first mouse tomorrow

[thephotoprincess]

Hmm is this the same community that goes 'wow' when they see the size of wild caught veileds?

Should they live as we see fit (colder temperatures, less food, confined to living spaces, longer life), or as nature sees fit? (higher temperatures, free range, more food, shorter life).

Ultimately that is up to the owner. A warm, well fed, short life can be enjoyed so long as there isn't chronic suffering. Likewise, a long, calorie restricted life can be enjoyed so long as there isn't chronic suffering.

However, I would agree that over-feeding is detrimental to their health....a healthy weight is fine, but obese or even just overweight is as bad in animals as it is in us. I read an interesting article recently about the common person thinks weight is largely genetic.....yet families with fat adults and fat kids, have fat pets! A fat dog is not a genetic trait from its owner.

Have a state of mind of health and nutrition, not weight gain and 'huge'. A pinky mouse should be offered once a month or less, with the majority of the diet being gutloaded insects in as much variety as possible.

With respects....Dr. Alfonso's blog post is about pinkies 1-3 times a week without providing much hard data (That is called 'sensationalism'). That would be VERY excessive considering the amount of time needed to digest just one pinky efficiently, provided ample heat, and you should pay heed to his warning. Anything in excess is bad.

There are many pictures available of chameleons eating birds (birds have beaks, oh and bones too, btw). They eat other chameleons, nails, teeth, bones and all. Other lizards. Certainly horn worms are not in their diet, nor silkworms, common crickets, mealworms, OR superworms. How do you say...let he without sin cast the first stone? Very little of what we provide our pets is natural.

Just make sure your temperatures are high enough to aid in digestion, and don't overdo it.

You bring up very good points. As long as the OP - or any owner - is aware of the risks vs rewards they are free to make that choice. I don't find much of a reward in the practice so I stick with bugs.

 

[laurie]

Hmm is this the same community that goes 'wow' when they see the size of wild caught veileds?

Should they live as we see fit (colder temperatures, less food, confined to living spaces, longer life), or as nature sees fit? (higher temperatures, free range, more food, shorter life).

Ultimately that is up to the owner. A warm, well fed, short life can be enjoyed so long as there isn't chronic suffering. Likewise, a long, calorie restricted life can be enjoyed so long as there isn't chronic suffering.

However, I would agree that over-feeding is detrimental to their health....a healthy weight is fine, but obese or even just overweight is as bad in animals as it is in us. I read an interesting article recently about the common person thinks weight is largely genetic.....yet families with fat adults and fat kids, have fat pets! A fat dog is not a genetic trait from its owner.

Have a state of mind of health and nutrition, not weight gain and 'huge'. A pinky mouse should be offered once a month or less, with the majority of the diet being gutloaded insects in as much variety as possible.

With respects....Dr. Alfonso's blog post is about pinkies 1-3 times a week without providing much hard data (That is called 'sensationalism'). That would be VERY excessive considering the amount of time needed to digest just one pinky efficiently, provided ample heat, and you should pay heed to his warning. Anything in excess is bad.

There are many pictures available of chameleons eating birds (birds have beaks, oh and bones too, btw). They eat other chameleons, nails, teeth, bones and all. Other lizards. Certainly horn worms are not in their diet, nor silkworms, common crickets, mealworms, OR superworms. How do you say...let he without sin cast the first stone? Very little of what we provide our pets is natural.

Just make sure your temperatures are high enough to aid in digestion, and don't overdo it.

I think I stand chastised. Everything you said it true. And I am a guilty as the next person. I am not a person without "sin" in this situation. I don't see any fat chams in any the pictures of chams in the wild. The idea of wanting it fat bothers me. Same with parents who overfeed their children. But I am over-weight so maybe I don't practice what I preach. I feel anything we do to shorten the life of something in our care, kid, cham, dog, whatever is a violation of our responsibility. My daughter was never over weight while living at home. I hope I an not shortening the lives of my dogs or my chams. I have a on going battle with myself about keeping chams. But I do it. My only w/c cham has a large room to free range in with lots of trees. My other are in cages most of the time. guess I don't have any answers when I really think about it.

 

[whereswaldo]

if you want to add a little weight if shes underweight try wax worms or butters i herd the animal protien isnt really something you want alot of is may cause other problems besides overweight theres gout to think of no one mentioned that.

 

[Zen Reptiles]

Sometimes waxworms are MUCH harder to digest than a pinky. After losing my favorite male Mitsio, I did a necropsy only to find a bunch of undigested waxworm carcasses blocking his colon.....he hadn't even had waxworms in weeks and weeks.

Googling it and asking other chammers, I found that waxworms are very hard to digest.

I do like phoenix and silkworms, as well as hornworms.

Make sure they either chew them well though, or you slice them/pierce them/do something to break the skin first. I usually rip their heads off and hand feed whenever I use worms now.

 

[allencg101]

feeding them a live animal besides an insect is not bad at all. i havent' feed my veileds any mice but i do treat my oustalates an anole once a week now or two depending on how much i can afford. protien is good for the big boys and veileds to get big at least the males do the females i am not to sure but i do know the bigger chams can and will munch on birds from time to time in the wild. just make sure it is parasite and disease free before you do.

 

[erik775]

hmmm...my male ambilobe is a really picky eater...and i think looks a little under weight i wonder if he will eat a pinky and if it will help him put on a little weight...what do you guys think ? would that be sort of a good reason to feed him one...?if hes a little under weight???...

 

[ChameleonNerd]

hmmm...my male ambilobe is a really picky eater...and i think looks a little under weight i wonder if he will eat a pinky and if it will help him put on a little weight...what do you guys think ? would that be sort of a good reason to feed him one...?if hes a little under weight???...

as long as you think he can get it down okay, one or two a month at the most would be okay

 

[erik775]

i think some pinkies look almost the size of some big crickets...ive seen some pretty big crix...

 

[italian chameleon]

I think is good to feed ONE pinkie to a female cham right after she laid eggs

 

[Chameleon Loco]

Pinkies

In the wild like qutar and other countries where veileds are orginally from they do not eat mice. But in capitivity we offer them many founds that are not found in the area where they come from. Pinkies offer lots of calcium and fat and of course protein. This can be very benificial for malnurished chamelons and gravid chameleons, and also post laying chameleons that need to replace the calcium used for the eggs. Other than that there really no reason to feed chams mice. If you want to feed mice go buy a monitor, tegu, or a snake.

 

[italian chameleon]

In the wild like qutar and other countries where veileds are orginally from they do not eat mice. But in capitivity we offer them many founds that are not found in the area where they come from. Pinkies offer lots of calcium and fat and of course protein. This can be very benificial for malnurished chamelons and gravid chameleons, and also post laying chameleons that need to replaced the calcium used for the eggs. Other than that there really no reason to feed chams mice. If you want ot feed mice go buy a monitor, tegu, or a snake.

totally agree

 

[jdcham]

she devoured the pinky saturday night...I haven't seen her looking this good ever before, so I will continue to feed one every month or two..she had no problem with it i think tis is because they aren't big at all and I recommend them from my experience

 

[jdcham]

@chameleon loco...she may be gravid so i beleive that for sure