First time Cham owner: Thoughts?

[Chris Anderson]

Yes, another "Staff Member" trolling my posts because I have posted a few different outside sources that don't help them make more money off their sponsors/site advertising. I also got a personal message asking I not contradict their info and leave the forum. "Christolph" above, of course, provides very general information available on this site that has several errors within the care sheet and then tries to sell commercially-available terrariums for Panther Chameleons. The local info on this site also doesn't even tell the pet owner the type of UVB bulb to buy, which is VERY dangerous. Too much UVB is the number one cause of skin cancer in Tropical species of Chameleons, like Panthers (i've learned the hard way). If anyone wants real, direct and accurate info, I recommend they simply call a breeder directly and have a lengthy discussion. These forums are littered with bad advice and nepotism.

Yes, your behavior recently has necessitated that your posts be reviewed because you have been repeatedly violating site rules. This has resulted in personal messages warning you that your behavior will result in your access to the site being revoked if you keep it up, and being told to start treating other members of the community, and the site staff, with common courtesy. The level of disrespect and arrogance you have shown over the last two days is astounding coming from someone who hatched their first chameleon 6 months ago. Your experience is slim and even if it were half as extensive as the members who you have taken to insulting in the last few days, it would not justify your behavior. Knock it off!

Further, I have not tried to sell anyone anything, and the sources I've provided and those on this site, are much more thorough than those that you have referenced. The information on this site does in fact point owners to the types of UVB to use (https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/lighting/). Further, while all UVB bulbs should be used with respect and in consideration with their radiance levels and your own enclosure, the reality is your comments about UVB are not based in fact or reality. Here are some references on UVB you might find useful:
http://www.chameleonnews.com/04AugBeveridge.html
http://www.chameleonnews.com/10JulWeldon.html
http://uvguide.co.uk
http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/An-In-Depth-Look-At-UV-Light-And-Its-Proper-Use-With-Reptiles/
http://www.chameleonbreeder.com/podcast/ep-55-mbd-uvb-with-john-courteney-smith/

Now, if you'd like to be a respectful, contributing member of this forum, you're welcome to do so. If you're going to continue with your current behavior, however, you can take a hike.

Chris

 

[JohnnyLawrence]

Yes, your behavior recently has necessitated that your posts be reviewed because you have been repeatedly violating site rules. This has resulted in personal messages warning you that your behavior will result in your access to the site being revoked if you keep it up, and being told to start treating other members of the community, and the site staff, with common courtesy. The level of disrespect and arrogance you have shown over the last two days is astounding coming from someone who hatched their first chameleon 6 months ago. Your experience is slim and even if it were half as extensive as the members who you have taken to insulting in the last few days, it would not justify your behavior. Knock it off!

Further, I have not tried to sell anyone anything, and the sources I've provided and those on this site, are much more thorough than those that you have referenced. The information on this site does in fact point owners to the types of UVB to use (https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/lighting/). Further, while all UVB bulbs should be used with respect and in consideration with their radiance levels and your own enclosure, the reality is your comments about UVB are not based in fact or reality. Here are some references on UVB you might find useful:
http://www.chameleonnews.com/04AugBeveridge.html
http://www.chameleonnews.com/10JulWeldon.html
http://uvguide.co.uk
http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/An-In-Depth-Look-At-UV-Light-And-Its-Proper-Use-With-Reptiles/
http://www.chameleonbreeder.com/podcast/ep-55-mbd-uvb-with-john-courteney-smith/

Now, if you'd like to be a respectful, contributing member of this forum, you're welcome to do so. If you're going to continue with your current behavior, however, you can take a hike.

Chris

Chris - You just said that a 5.0 UVB bulb is not adequate for Panther Chameleons, and then posted your own source that recommends the 5.0 Bulb. Where in your source does it say that a 5.0 is not adequate for Panther Chameleons. Also, are you denying that too much UVB radiation does not contribute to a Chameleon's risk of skin cancer.

 

[Chris Anderson]

Chris - You just said that a 5.0 UVB bulb is not adequate for Panther Chameleons, and then posted your own source that recommends the 5.0 Bulb. Where in your source does it say that a 5.0 is not adequate for Panther Chameleons. Also, are you denying that too much UVB radiation does not contribute to a Chameleon's risk of skin cancer.

No, I said that the recommended UVB lighting in that care sheet is really only best for small species/individuals in shorter enclosures. That care sheet recommended ReptiSun 5.0 CFL bulbs. CFL bulbs give high intensity UVB radiance levels at short distances, but only in a small area and they drop off rapidly. Linear fluorescents spread that radiance over a larger area that would be more appropriate for a larger animal like a panther chameleon, the levels are not as intense right up next to it, and the levels permeate longer distances. As a result, for taller enclosures, a linear fluorescent will provide better coverage and better opportunity to create proper UVB gradients than a CFL bulb. I use CFL bulbs, but I use them in shorter enclosures and with smaller species where the proper gradients can be set up and the exposure spots are the proper size for the animal.

I definitely do not disagree that excessive UVB radiation is dangerous. Not enough can be equally dangerous. That said, nothing about my post recommended UVB that was in excess, and I provided links to articles that give explicit recommendation about how much UVB certain species, including panthers, should get.

Chris

 

[JohnnyLawrence]

No, I said that the recommended UVB lighting in that care sheet is really only best for small species/individuals in shorter enclosures. That care sheet recommended ReptiSun 5.0 CFL bulbs. CFL bulbs give high intensity UVB radiance levels at short distances, but only in a small area and they drop off rapidly. Linear fluorescents spread that radiance over a larger area that would be more appropriate for a larger animal like a panther chameleon, the levels are not as intense right up next to it, and the levels permeate longer distances. As a result, for taller enclosures, a linear fluorescent will provide better coverage and better opportunity to create proper UVB gradients than a CFL bulb. I use CFL bulbs, but I use them in shorter enclosures and with smaller species where the proper gradients can be set up and the exposure spots are the proper size for the animal.

I definitely do not disagree that excessive UVB radiation is dangerous. Not enough can be equally dangerous. That said, nothing about my post recommended UVB that was in excess, and I provided links to articles that give explicit recommendation about how much UVB certain species, including panthers, should get.

Chris

The intensity of the CFL and the Linear Tube, according to Exo-Terra (as an example) are the same, when considering depth. Do you have a chart that compares the two with regards to vertical penetration?

 

[Chris Anderson]

The intensity of the CFL and the Linear Tube, according to Exo-Terra (as an example) are the same, when considering depth. Do you have a chart that compares the two with regards to vertical penetration?

Listen to the podcast in the last link I provided (http://www.chameleonbreeder.com/podcast/ep-55-mbd-uvb-with-john-courteney-smith/) and read the article in the link above it (http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/An-In-Depth-Look-At-UV-Light-And-Its-Proper-Use-With-Reptiles/).

Chris

 

[WAMBO]

Listen to the podcast in the last link I provided (http://www.chameleonbreeder.com/podcast/ep-55-mbd-uvb-with-john-courteney-smith/) and read the article in the link above it (http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/An-In-Depth-Look-At-UV-Light-And-Its-Proper-Use-With-Reptiles/).

Chris

Nice informative article at reptilesmagazine.
Thanks!

 

[JohnnyLawrence]

No, I said that the recommended UVB lighting in that care sheet is really only best for small species/individuals in shorter enclosures. That care sheet recommended ReptiSun 5.0 CFL bulbs. CFL bulbs give high intensity UVB radiance levels at short distances, but only in a small area and they drop off rapidly. Linear fluorescents spread that radiance over a larger area that would be more appropriate for a larger animal like a panther chameleon, the levels are not as intense right up next to it, and the levels permeate longer distances. As a result, for taller enclosures, a linear fluorescent will provide better coverage and better opportunity to create proper UVB gradients than a CFL bulb. I use CFL bulbs, but I use them in shorter enclosures and with smaller species where the proper gradients can be set up and the exposure spots are the proper size for the animal.

I definitely do not disagree that excessive UVB radiation is dangerous. Not enough can be equally dangerous. That said, nothing about my post recommended UVB that was in excess, and I provided links to articles that give explicit recommendation about how much UVB certain species, including panthers, should get.

Chris

The problem here is they are comparing 10.0 bulbs. If you look at the linear tube chart, and reduce UV indexes proportionately for the 5.0, it would not appear that he UVB penetrates further than the CFL. In fact, it evidences quite the opposite and confirms my previous thoughts. I'm not saying that the 5.0 T8 isn't good for Panthers...but I don't see evidence to support your claim that it's better in regards to depth. In fact, I see the opposite.

 

[WAMBO]

Gotta admit that a CFL will have a more narrow beam, and therefore less area coverage than a linear tube. So T5/T8 would help with big cages.

 

[Chris Anderson]

The problem here is they are comparing 10.0 bulbs. If you look at the linear tube chart, and reduce UV indexes proportionately for the 5.0, it would not appear that he UVB penetrates further than the CFL. In fact, it evidences quite the opposite and confirms my previous thoughts. I'm not saying that the 5.0 T8 isn't good for Panthers...but I don't see evidence to support your claim that it's better in regards to depth. In fact, I see the opposite.

Actually, you can't say whether the figures support my claims or not because the radiance outputs are going to vary by manufacturer, bulb intensity, T8/T5 bulb type, etc. None of the figures keep any of those things constant between them, so you can't make such a comparison. If you read the article and listen to that podcast, however, those things are address.

To quote the article in Reptiles, however:

"UVB fluorescent tubes (regular T8, 1-inch diameter) produce diffuse, low levels of UVB over a relatively large area close to the tube. This resembles outdoor shade on a sunny day, very suitable for the Shade Method in small vivariums, where the maximum UVI required would be no higher than UVI 0.7-1.0. Brands vary widely in UVB output, which can be doubled when a reflector is used. They produce little heat, low levels of visible light and should always be combined with a higher-quality visible light source. Good-quality tubes should only need replacing yearly.

In larger vivariums, high-output T5 (T5-HO) tubes (slim 16mm diameter) may be used, positioned further from the animals, to obtain the same low UVI at animal level.

UVB compact fluorescent lamps also produce diffuse, low levels of UVB at basking distances, but the UVB is limited to a small area, and at close range the light and UVB may be intense, making good positioning difficult. They can be very useful in canopies over the mesh tops of small terrariums, creating UV zones for smaller arboreal species. These decay more rapidly than tubes and may need replacement after 6 months’ use."

Chris

 

[Remkon]

what a day to run out of popcorn...

 

[Nursemaia]

@JohnnyLawrence
Are you pushing this care sheet because there's a tab that takes you to where you can purchase chams and ultimately you're just trying to make a buck? So really it has nothing to do about offering advice but more about making sales.

 

[WAMBO]

Dangit, the plot thickens. Where's the Jiffypop!

 

[JohnnyLawrence]

@JohnnyLawrence
Are you pushing this care sheet because there's a tab that takes you to where you can purchase chams and ultimately you're just trying to make a buck? So really it has nothing to do about offering advice but more about making sales.

You spent the time to post 5 useless comments in 5 different blogs...enough said!

 

[Nursemaia]

I wouldn't say my comments are useless. You post with the guise of altruism but really you're a grifter trying to sell chams. Do it the right way and post in the market section. You posted the same thing in multiple threads. I could say enough is enough to you. I only wanted people to know your ulterior motives

 

[Remkon]

I wouldn't say my comments are useless. You post with the guise of altruism but really you're a grifter trying to sell chams. Do it the right way and post in the market section. You posted the same thing in multiple threads. I could say enough is enough to you. I only wanted people to know your ulterior motives

We sure solved this mystery huh scooby!

 

[WAMBO]

We sure solved this mystery huh scooby!

More like Mrs Columbo!

 

[Nursemaia]

Zoinks!

 

[Virgil1972]

We sure solved this mystery huh scooby!

And I would have gotten away with it to if it was't for you meddling kids.

 

[Stinger]

Wow, what post. Just going to say one thing.
I Love my two ARCADIA Quad lights T5 HO @ 12% UVB. 24" & 48".
I have two enclosures Rainbows being the largest.
I know they are going to Last the year. .
This enclosure is 6 feet wide for Rainbow it works nicely
Chris AndersonDr. House of Chameleons, if you have any suggestions please let me know.
Thank you.

 

[Nursemaia]

I have Arcadia T5 HO bulbs in a quad fixture too. I think they're the best lights out there. I even got a shout out from Arcadia on their Facebook page because I'm using their lights on my baby melleri and they wanted to show how well he was doing under their lights.