First time looking for imports. Anyone got a crash course?

Jikkermanccini

Jikkermanccini

Established Member
Hello! I'm preparing to get back into chameleons after a break, and in a few months, I'll be re-starting with with a pair of panthers (Nosy Mitsio or Sambava) and will start breeding them a year or so down the line. By that point, I would like to try and get some Calumma malthe/brevicorne to also start breeding. However, I can't find a single vendor who sells captive bred babies, and the vendors I've found selling adults seem to be frowned upon by the community, so I won't take any chances.
So here's the question. How does one get an imported chameleon without working through a third party like Underground, Backwater etc?
Plus, is there any set-in-stone protocol for dealing with parasites in wild animals? I have experience using & have access to Vetscan tech and fecal floats through my father who is a vet, so getting medications shouldn't be a big issue. I also know a vet who specializes in reptiles, though I'm not sure if he has experience with chameleons.
So if anyone can guide me and help me find a path to success that would be amazing. I'm loving re-learning all of the facets of the hobby and I can't wait to start again.
 
You said..."is there any set-in-stone protocol for dealing with parasites in wild animals? I have experience using & have access to Vetscan tech and fecal floats through my father who is a vet, so getting medications shouldn't be a big issue. I also know a vet who specializes in reptiles, though I'm not sure if he has experience with chameleons.
So if anyone can guide me and help me find a path to success that would be amazing. I'm loving re-learning all of the facets of the hobby and I can't wait to start again"...best I can say is, when dealing with WC's, don't treat for parasites right away unless you think it's affecting the health too much. If you give the chameleon a chance to acclimate before treating the parasites, often the load will be less. Also, depending on how heavy the load is, you may want to treat them slowly...live parasites the chameleon can cope with to some extent...but dead ones become "garbage" that the chameleon's system has to get rid of...and that can be hard on them or even kill them. Also...don't just shot gun it and treat with just any antiparasite medication, but test to see what they have and use the appropriate one. I'm saying this all from experience...when I started keeping chameleons over 30 years ago, all e could get were WC's.
Hope this helps.
 
kinyonga said:
You said..."is there any set-in-stone protocol for dealing with parasites in wild animals? I have experience using & have access to Vetscan tech and fecal floats through my father who is a vet, so getting medications shouldn't be a big issue. I also know a vet who specializes in reptiles, though I'm not sure if he has experience with chameleons.
So if anyone can guide me and help me find a path to success that would be amazing. I'm loving re-learning all of the facets of the hobby and I can't wait to start again"...best I can say is, when dealing with WC's, don't treat for parasites right away unless you think it's affecting the health too much. If you give the chameleon a chance to acclimate before treating the parasites, often the load will be less. Also, depending on how heavy the load is, you may want to treat them slowly...live parasites the chameleon can cope with to some extent...but dead ones become "garbage" that the chameleon's system has to get rid of...and that can be hard on them or even kill them. Also...don't just shot gun it and treat with just any antiparasite medication, but test to see what they have and use the appropriate one. I'm saying this all from experience...when I started keeping chameleons over 30 years ago, all e could get were WC's.
Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for the info, I appreciate it! This all makes perfect sense. I guess I'm used to the disease protocol regarding marine fish, typically a treatment right away is what we do so that diseases don't spread. That said, I don't do that even with my own fish! I keep them healthy enough to deal with the natural levels of parasites, so I guess this would be the right direction to go with chams. Thanks again!
 
Not recommended to do this...but with one chameleon, we even left her with a certain parasite that it was determined wouldn't likely kill her since it only ate her food, so to speak...because we were trying to get her to expel a male parsite so we could determine the exact species that the parsite was. I was able to get her to expel a couple of females but never got her to expel a male...but we did get a male from the necropsy once she had died a number of years later, in her old age. I had never seen a parisitologist so excited when he found it....and there was no indication that the chameleon died from anything to do with the parasites either.
 
kinyonga said:
Not recommended to do this...but with one chameleon, we even left her with a certain parasite that it was determined wouldn't likely kill her since it only ate her food, so to speak...because we were trying to get her to expel a male parsite some could determine the exact species that the parsite was. I was able to get her to expel a couple of females but never got her to expel a male...but we did get a male from the necropsy once she had died a number of years later in her old age. I had never seen a parisitologist so excited when he found it....and there was no indication that the chameleon died from anything to do with the parasites either.
Click to expand...
It's really shocking how much of a parasite load healthy animals can take! It shows when I've added new fish to a tank, only to have them succumb to something that my other fish just brush off.
 
There's no established protocol to always deal with imports the same way. There's common "shotgun treatments", some of which are over the counter (panacur is an example), but sometimes more specific treatments or prescriptions are needed. There is a risk anytime you give medication, so the proper way to treat imports is totally variable based on the situation and outcomes you are looking for. I'd recommend not just shotgun treating everything. It's easy to overlook, but pathogen resistance to drugs is increasing rapidly and eventually our treatments might no longer not be effective. Therefore, it is best to limit use of these drugs unless it's clearly indicated. If you want to import a lot of chameleons, I'd recommend getting in touch with a good reptile vet. Often times, they can treat the whole group together, as almost a herd of animals. For instance, if a group of imported chameleons all show signs of RI, perhaps the vet can give you meds to treat the group. This means there is some medical supervision and it can usually be done much cheaper than it would be just treating each of them individually. They can also help you with meds if you go that route.

Parasites are ubiquitous in chameleons and >80% of all the chameleons sold at shows have some kind of parasite. So an import may not even be much different than a CBB with parasite load. Of course, that is not always the case by any means.

True exporters (the ones based in madagascar) are sketchy and very hard to establish any connection with. Most big importers do not deal with the general public, and instead sell in bulk to flippers, who basically buy what got imported, attempt to briefly acclimate, and then sell for a marked up price to the public. So it's very hard to avoid third-party vendors. If you want a good importer though, try chameleon cans on facebook. They are communicative and are a cherry picker importer, meaning they buy in bulk from the big importers but only get the best stock of animals. Importers/flippers like these that are transparent are by far the best to wok with.

So, in short, unless you have connections and will be buying in bulk, your best bet is to find a company or individual with the importer connections, establish a relationship with them, then buy from them. You can then do some of the diagnostics like you mention (basic fecal float pooled from all the animals imported), and work with a vet to treat the imports as a "herd", which saves money but gives vet supervision which is helpful. I'd shy away from always treating with over the counter drugs for the reasons I mention above + may not be necessary.

I hope this helps! The calumma malthe/brevicorne are great species and certainly could benefit from some captive breeding efforts :)
 
Jikkermanccini said:
By that point, I would like to try and get some Calumma malthe/brevicorne to also start breeding. However, I can't find a single vendor who sells captive bred babies, and the vendors I've found selling adults seem to be frowned upon by the community, so I won't take any chances.
So here's the question. How does one get an imported chameleon without working through a third party like Underground, Backwater etc?
Click to expand...
The only importer I 100% trust and put my name behind is Chameleon Cans. Chris Van Akin is incredibly responsive and only sends out the healthiest animals. His prices are higher than most other importers, but you actually get what you pay for. You know for certain that the animals will come in great condition. Check him out on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ChameleonCans/

Frank Payne, a giant in the chameleon hobby, even vouched for them in Bill Strand's (Chameleon Academy Podcast) most recent carpet chameleon episode, saying that Chris Van Akin is the only importer that he trusts to bring in healthy individuals.

The importing season is drawing to a close soon, so if you want malthes you should either contact him very soon or wait till early January.

As for treating imported animals, I'm not really an expert but I will relay what others have said. If you can, you should let the animal acclimate before treating them unless they are in really bad shape. Once they are acclimated and they appear healthy--demonstrating normal behavior, eating, drinking, etc., you are fine not treating them. If you want, you can do a fecal and see if there is anything worth treating.

All chameleons have parasites. The import process can be grueling for them, leaving them unable to regulate parasite loads. Many times, the chameleon, when placed in an excellent enclosure that allows them to hide, eat, drink, etc., will begin to fight off these parasite loads and knock them down to pre-import levels.

Treating them can be stressful both mentally (scared of being handled) and physically (medication takes a toll on the body). So it is worth considering the pros and cons before deciding on an approach. Usually, the chameleon will let you know what it needs if you keep an eye out for unhealthy symptoms.
 
Mendez said:
The only importer I 100% trust and put my name behind is Chameleon Cans. Chris Van Akin is incredibly responsive and only sends out the healthiest animals. His prices are higher than most other importers, but you actually get what you pay for. You know for certain that the animals will come in great condition. Check him out on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ChameleonCans/

Frank Payne, a giant in the chameleon hobby, even vouched for them in Bill Strand's (Chameleon Academy Podcast) most recent carpet chameleon episode, saying that Chris Van Akin is the only importer that he trusts to bring in healthy individuals.

The importing season is drawing to a close soon, so if you want malthes you should either contact him very soon or wait till early January.

As for treating imported animals, I'm not really an expert but I will relay what others have said. If you can, you should let the animal acclimate before treating them unless they are in really bad shape. Once they are acclimated and they appear healthy--demonstrating normal behavior, eating, drinking, etc., you are fine not treating them. If you want, you can do a fecal and see if there is anything worth treating.

All chameleons have parasites. The import process can be grueling for them, leaving them unable to regulate parasite loads. Many times, the chameleon, when placed in an excellent enclosure that allows them to hide, eat, drink, etc., will begin to fight off these parasite loads and knock them down to pre-import levels.

Treating them can be stressful both mentally (scared of being handled) and physically (medication takes a toll on the body). So it is worth considering the pros and cons before deciding on an approach. Usually, the chameleon will let you know what it needs if you keep an eye out for unhealthy symptoms.
Click to expand...
Couldn't have said it better, great points
 
Mendez said:
Very nice! What are you getting?

Chris at Chameleon Cans is amazing!
Click to expand...
D2B8E74F-771F-4A52-9C43-A2714A3AEBD2.jpeg
178152C9-8E89-4869-83FE-9D93E0167FF7.jpeg

😊
I’m very excited!
 
Yooooooooooooo!!! Very nice! You'll absolutely love them. I got my willsii from Chris. I wish I had more money (...I mean don't we all). But I hope to save enough to get a large group of willsii next importation season early next year. I also want more superciliaris. And a small group of thieli. Who knows if I'll get all of that in one season. I gotta hit the books and study hard to get the job I want (or rather the job I need) to sustain myself in this hobby. Taking lessons from @javadi on how to spend money the right way lol
 
Mendez said:
Yooooooooooooo!!! Very nice! You'll absolutely love them. I got my willsii from Chris. I wish I had more money (...I mean don't we all). But I hope to save enough to get a large group of willsii next importation season early next year. I also want more superciliaris. And a small group of thieli. Who knows if I'll get all of that in one season. I gotta hit the books and study hard to get the job I want (or rather the job I need) to sustain myself in this hobby. Taking lessons from @javadi on how to spend money the right way lol
Click to expand...
Man kinda glad I don't have a BUNCH of extra money for reptiles at the moment .. I'd turn this 3 bedroom house into a zoo 😂😭 .. ESPECIALLY now that ive dipped my toes into Uroplatus 🙄 haha
 
Mendez said:
Exactly! It would be absolute chaos! What uroplatus species did you get? Phants?
Click to expand...
Yesss man I picked up a breeding pair from Yvette Strand @mistymountainphants. My female just became sexually mature (laid duds) so I'll be pairing her up with my male this week 😁. Should have eggs by next month. Not gonna lie though I had my eyes on sikorae before I got these phants but I heard they were difficultish to breed . Been wanting to make a post on here but this is a chameleon forum 😂
 
FloridaChameleonLiving said:
Yesss man I picked up a breeding pair from Yvette Strand @mistymountainphants. My female just became sexually mature (laid duds) so I'll be pairing her up with my male this week 😁. Should have eggs by next month. Not gonna lie though I had my eyes on sikorae before I got these phants but I heard they were difficultish to breed . Been wanting to make a post on here but this is a chameleon forum 😂
Click to expand...
You have to make a new thread about them! I really want to see them here. I got my phant from the same place!

Also, sorry OP for hijacking your thread
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

sketchtone
My happy boy!
Replies
1
Views
218
BleuSaphir
BleuSaphir
DelilahTheChameleon
Wanting to Breed a female panther.
Replies
4
Views
614
DelilahTheChameleon
DelilahTheChameleon
dommer94
Introduction to the community
2
Replies
25
Views
855
MissSkittles
MissSkittles
JacksJill
20 Years of Lessons and Memories
Replies
4
Views
513
Beppo
Beppo
My_Chameleon
Jackson's Chameleon Prolapse
Replies
18
Views
882
kinyonga
K
Back
Top Bottom