Fischer's Chameleon (Kinyongia fischeri)

[Titan]

As Eric Stated above, His perrished in 24 hrs. and that still happens to many new Fishers owners. These are nearly 100% wild caught amimals. and riddled with various paracites before you recieve them. So instant treatment is, In my eyes the only way to hope and longevity, with most of these Wild Caughts.
Ive had this species for 4 years now.(Still have those ones) But met a few failures along the way. several arrived to me and were on the deathbed before treatment could even soak in.

What a great fun Species once you have a Healthy animal and I would recomend them as Just great Chameleons to anyone with abit of experience!

I'm doing my best recently to produce some CH young, I have my fingers crossed, as this has not occured in captivity often. I have the healthy fishers pairs they are making the eggs, now its up to me and my notebook to do the rest. I'll share my success and information here if all works out.

 

[Titan]

I'm going to add this in also. When purchasing these animals as with others species in this same situation. I think purchasing these from a pet store have a better chance at survival, sounds crazy. But do to this reason: If the animal makes it through all the time it took to get from the Jungle to the store, most unhealthy animal have already perished. So these that make it there and look healthy are probubly good strong animals with low to none paracite infestation. Heavily Paracitic animals just dont live to long without treatment.

Also If you buy off of some of these quick moving sales companies at Kingsnake, find what you want and wait abit. You will watch daily the Lots and #'s on their sites go fast. most usually not all to owners, the Numbers die off before the can get them sold. So if you wait there and end up still getting your Chameleon. Your more likely to have got a better stronger animal, than the one you would have got on the quick sale. You may by waiting & lose an opportunity at that time to get what you want there. But its better than watching them Die in your hands, even when you start treatment.

Chris, sorry to put this info out on your thread. I feel more people ought to get into these amazing little ones, and just throwing out some info as caution, for Purchasing . But with the intent on educating and getting more people into owning these guys.

 

[Syn]

DAMN ME LIVING IN ARIZONA, i love the montane species.... id love to be able to keep quadi's, fischeri and jacksonii easly....

You aren't the only one!

 

[Sporkthedork]

Now you guys have me worried and I don't even have my little guy yet. But I think the person I got it from is reliable, he was the only one with all positive comments/feedback from the BOI forums at faunaclassifieds. He also has a reputation of keeping his animals in a greenhouse for a while before he sells them off.

TITAN:
Can you describe the first month of your fischer's husbandry to me if you have time. So far I was planning on using 2x2x3 screen cage with hibiscus plants. He'll be outside during the day and inside during the night and the temps here are in accordance to adchams profile of this species. The temp in L.A. is pretty good and I live in the mountain areas so it kind of works for the mountain species I think. I know they like flying feeders but I was thinking of using butterworms for the first couple of feedings just in case they are a little dehydrated. I will mist them 3 times a day for about 5-10 minutes. Does this sound good?

 

[Cainschams]

Amazing!!!

Thats about all I can do when I look at them!!! Great pics and specimen! They appear to be in great shape? I hope they acclimate well for you and I hope to be seeing pics of some females soon!

 

[SoCaliSon]

Very cool Chris! Best of luck with them!

 

[Titan]

Yea, I had to go back and check out those Pic's. The first 2 are truly unique & amazing looking specimens! Very good clear photos showing intence detail and coloration.

Reply for Spork, Hey from my experience, these guys are movers,(travelers.) Of all the species of Chameleons I own these guys like to roam. So Im gonna suggest the largest cage you can afford to house, pending on your area alloted. Or as I do I free range mine, but contain them at the bottom, These guys are of a higher intelligence than some of the others I feel, as they seem to be pretty good at figuring out situations, and calculating how to acheive their desire to get there. Also with a memory far better than my other Chams.
In a sence they are good problem solvers, and One of the reasons they are such a joy, is to see this intelligence in such a creature.
The other thing I would recomend A.S.A.P. if you have some comming, would be go to site sponsor Chameleons Northwest, here. And purchase the small bottle of Reptaid. and Dose as perscribed as soon as you get them. This will eleiminate, most all paracites and will help give some strength and vitality along with that.

Keep the rooms you contain them in 65 to 75 max and up your hummidity, I mist and use drippers, all mine drink well out of drippers, just set one up where its in line with there daily moving habits, and they will stop for a drink when they pass by. Usually you dont see them do this unless you have alot of time to watch them walk about! I feed the adults every 2 to 3 days.

Pothos plants work well with these guys Intermingled with a ficus or large Shelefra. They are smaller Chams and you can stretch out the vines to areas giving them many more ways to walk and explore.
Spent enough time on this thred, If anyone is interested for more info, start up a new thread and I'll keep my eye out for it.

Thanks Chris, keep posting us some more Pic's, along with your amazing intelligence & knowledge of the complete Chameleon Kingdom!

 

[Chris Anderson]

Thanks guys! I'm glad you enjoyed the pics!

The two males I got are WC and appear to be fully grown. They are about the same size as your typical male Kinyongia multituberculata but their tails are incredibly long. I need to get length measurements but have been letting them settle. Their coloration and patterns are amazing. The series of longitudinal lines are definitely unique as is the blue-green coloration they have. The photos I posted are of the same male. The other isn't in quite as good condition but he is eating and drinking so I have high hopes that he'll be fine. Hopefully they will do well and I'll be able to get some females for them.

The Kinyongia in general, in my opinion, are highly underrated and probably my favorite genus of chameleon. I've been fortunate enough to work with a number of the species in this genus now and have to say that each of them were absolutely fascinating and definitely qualify as species I'd like to keep working with down the road.

As far as keeping the various species in the two-horned group goes, I've had relatively good luck with them. I've had good luck getting mine from quality chameleon sellers (First Choice, FL Chams, Eco Regional, etc.). If you are able to get healthy animals, I've found they do quite well as long as you provide them with plenty of water (I provide misting twice a day for 30 mins each time) and moderate temperatures. I've hatched K. tavetana, K. multituberculata and K. vosseleri and they seemed to require fairly low incubation temperatures (around 65F). One thing that always frustrated me, however, was that the babies seemed to be difficult to sell. They are definitely underrated and I hope people start to appreciate them more and try working with them!

Chris

 

[Titan]

Very interesting, now you helped sum up my suspicion on incubating of their eggs. 65 is exactly the temp im trying to maintain. And wow now I feel much better about going out on that limb! Thanks Chris

 

[ciafardo 4]

Thanks guys! I'm glad you enjoyed the pics!

The two males I got are WC and appear to be fully grown. They are about the same size as your typical male Kinyongia multituberculata but their tails are incredibly long. I need to get length measurements but have been letting them settle. Their coloration and patterns are amazing. The series of longitudinal lines are definitely unique as is the blue-green coloration they have. The photos I posted are of the same male. The other isn't in quite as good condition but he is eating and drinking so I have high hopes that he'll be fine. Hopefully they will do well and I'll be able to get some females for them.

The Kinyongia in general, in my opinion, are highly underrated and probably my favorite genus of chameleon. I've been fortunate enough to work with a number of the species in this genus now and have to say that each of them were absolutely fascinating and definitely qualify as species I'd like to keep working with down the road.

As far as keeping the various species in the two-horned group goes, I've had relatively good luck with them. I've had good luck getting mine from quality chameleon sellers (First Choice, FL Chams, Eco Regional, etc.). If you are able to get healthy animals, I've found they do quite well as long as you provide them with plenty of water (I provide misting twice a day for 30 mins each time) and moderate temperatures. I've hatched K. tavetana, K. multituberculata and K. vosseleri and they seemed to require fairly low incubation temperatures (around 65F). One thing that always frustrated me, however, was that the babies seemed to be difficult to sell. They are definitely underrated and I hope people start to appreciate them more and try working with them!

Chris

Chris PLEASE PMme if you every have cb babies i can't believe they are hard to sell they are almost never seen!I would kill for a couple of them. I had a male multituberculata but could never find a female that was in decent health.

 

[eisentrauti]

It's the same in Germany. They are only offered as very cheap adults and nearly no one is interested in breeding them. I will never understand why people pay much more money for pardalis which are so common ( and they need big tanks and produce high energy bills...and eat so much...)

 

[Chris Anderson]

Chris PLEASE PMme if you every have cb babies i can't believe they are hard to sell they are almost never seen!I would kill for a couple of them. I had a male multituberculata but could never find a female that was in decent health.

I had a clutch of K. vosseleri that I offered for sale for months and didn't sell a single animal. My prices weren't necessarily cheap but for a species that had only been offered as CB or CH a handful of times, completely reasonable. Lots of people commented about how great it was to see them offered as CH and that the price was great for what they were but I didn't sell a single one. I ended up selling them wholesale to a guy in Texas who sold them at his pet store.

It's the same in Germany. They are only offered as very cheap adults and nearly no one is interested in breeding them. I will never understand why people pay much more money for pardalis which are so common ( and they need big tanks and produce high energy bills...and eat so much...)

Couldn't agree more. We have access to some incredible gems of species for next to nothing and no one is working with them. No one even seems to want the CB/CH animals. Its really a shame and I hope people start to realize what some of these other species are like.

Chris

 

[Eric Adrignola]

montanes are always underated. Deremensis, melleri - fischer's. Really, people had a fit when they saw those CB melleri going for $200 a few years ago. But nobody flinches at a panther, which will probably have one third the life expectancy, going for $300.

If you just look at and appreciate them, the fischerii, mellerii, deremensis, johnstonii - they seem so much BETTER than panthers. To me. hehe.

people just like bright flashy colors... easy to market colors. Not so easy to market coolness!

 

[Cainschams]

Chris!! You can also put me down for some CH/CB specimen I have to agree that the Kinyongia genus is very underrated. I love the appearance of all but have only experienced the tavetana so far. I want to focus more on this genus down the road and really want to work with some of the rarer farm raised species that are available to us in the U.S. Keep us posted Chris!

 

[kinyonga]

Titan said..."So instant treatment is, In my eyes the only way to hope and longevity"...I have found that instant treatment of parasites in these chameleons can result in them dying if the parasite load is heavy enough. The death of the parasites creates a large amount of dead material that the body must get rid of all at once.This can cause a sort of toxic shock because the body can't handle all of it.

Some of these chameleons also seem to suffer from that "fail to thrive syndrome" and just seem to die off from being captive.

The ones that don't have a heavy parasite load and don't go downhill quickly seem to do quite well in captivity.

BTW...the K. vosseleri seem to have a dark mark on the back of the neck (at least the males do) that makes them more easily identified. Correct me if I'm wrong, Chris.

 

[Cainschams]

How are these guys doing BTW?

 

[Chris Anderson]

They are both doing very well. I need to get some updated photos now that they have settled in and one has shed.

Chris

 

[Sepioteuthis]

I'm late to the party again! Great post, Chris. And good luck with those real Fisher's. I hope you'll find them some nice females.

Does F-1 mean the generation after wild-caught?

Yes. The F(something) designation comes from the world in genetics. This wikipedia article is pretty accurate, I think.
In chameleons it's just used to indicate how far the lineage of an animal can be traced back, so F1 is from WC parents, F2 is from F1 parents etc.

 

[Peter Kraemer]

Hello Chris,
my girlfriend and me already hold 1.1 Furcifer padalis (Sambava) and 1.0 Kinyongia matschiei.

The last week we have bought a new chameleon, because I am not sure to identify between Kinyongia vosseleri or multituberculata. Please look and write your opinion.

Greetings from Germany
Peter

 

[Chris Anderson]

Peter,

Based on the rostral protuberance and dorsal crest as it extends down onto the tail, I believe this is a male K. multituberculata. It is definitely an unusually colored individual, quite striking, in fact. I've not seen any with this coloration but morphologically, it does seem consistent with K. multituberculata.

Chris