Luischameleon
Member
and tomorrow i will buy at 50 watts basking spot
Fist day at home
- Thread starter Luischameleon
- Start date
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
@Luischameleon If he is as young as you say he is, humidity is going to be a big problem in a big sparse screen cage. Can you enclose three sides with plastic? Anything to hold in the humidity. In a pinch you could even drape Saran Wrap just make sure you don't start a fire with the basking lights. Get him something up high and keep the temps lower than I expect you have them at with a 100w bulb. Low humidity, temps too hot, tiny fragile baby, and a novice owner who does not have the experience to recognize a problem are major risk factors to your babies life. That is not a slight to you--we all started as novices. NONE of us knew what normal looked like when we started and we didn't know what a sick chameleon looked like either.
Are you home during the day? Can you mist every hour? I would do that. I would be very very worried about dehydration. Once babies start going downhill they can crash really fast. Crashing babies don't do well in novices hands. Humidity is one of the keys to successfully keeping any chameleon but especially a baby.
Why are you waiting to get an umbrella plant delivered on Tuesday? Home Depot has all kinds of chameleon-safe plants. Just wash them well. You need a live plant to give off humidity as it breathes, so the cage will be more humid between mistings. You also want a living plant to hold the tiny water droplets on their leaves. Water doesn't evaporate as quickly on a living plant (because the plant is breathing and has increased the humidity around it) so everything is just more humid which is not easy to get in a screen cage.
I'm sorry if I have frightened and upset you. I want your baby to flourish.
Are you home during the day? Can you mist every hour? I would do that. I would be very very worried about dehydration. Once babies start going downhill they can crash really fast. Crashing babies don't do well in novices hands. Humidity is one of the keys to successfully keeping any chameleon but especially a baby.
Why are you waiting to get an umbrella plant delivered on Tuesday? Home Depot has all kinds of chameleon-safe plants. Just wash them well. You need a live plant to give off humidity as it breathes, so the cage will be more humid between mistings. You also want a living plant to hold the tiny water droplets on their leaves. Water doesn't evaporate as quickly on a living plant (because the plant is breathing and has increased the humidity around it) so everything is just more humid which is not easy to get in a screen cage.
I'm sorry if I have frightened and upset you. I want your baby to flourish.
Luischameleon
Member
Jean thanks for being so helpful, for now I can spend a lot of time at home, so that means I can take very good care of Pablo, I will wrap the sides with plastic just like you said and mist it every hour, i changed the basking spot with a regular 100w bulb, let's see how it goes. When he sleeps his colors are turning green like it was supposed to be but at any other time of the day his colors are pretty dark almost black I would say, I was hoping that this was because of the stress of being delivered in a tiny box and i hope he gets better in the next few days, I took a look at his poop and seems normal to me.
Anyway let's just wait to see if he gets better, today he's exploring the cage a little bit more so i think everything will be ok.
thank you so much for all the help
Luischameleon
Member
Is that ok if i handle him? i've been trying to avoid for a while until he adapts with his new home
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
I would not touch him at all. He is showing you he is very very stressed and handling him will just add more. Chameleons in general will always think of you as a chameleon eating monster. If you grab him he will think he is about to die. When they get older many become tame but babies are wild things.
I would just leave him alone, keep the humidity up, add some perches and plants and let him settle down.
He might be extra stressed because your cage is so bare. An exposed chameleon is some predator's lunch and he instinctively knows that. Shipping in a small dark container is really not stressful for them--they just go to sleep.
Classy
Member
I agree with that, my chameleon that is about 5 months still hates my hand.
Luischameleon
Member
Guys, his cage is in my bedroom and every time he sees me he hides and when i leave the room he seems to get confortable and as soon as i get back he hides again, how can I deal with this?
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
Okay @Luischameleon , here's the deal with chameleons:
First and foremost you need to understand that a chameleon, especially a baby, has very little defenses if found by a predator. Their primary defense strategy is to remain motionless and hide. They are incredibly adept at swiveling around to the other side of the branch and flattening their bodies to be thinner than even the thinnest branches. They cannot flee. At best, they can curl up in a ball and drop to the forest floor. They can bluff, but babies don't tend to bluff (inflate themselves, hiss, gape) as much as bigger, stronger adults. Babies are very very fearful.
Basically, if found by a predator, the chameleon is dinner. Chameleons understand that.
You are a human and very very large compared to the little chameleon. I bet you look directly at your chameleon. That's what predators do before an attack--they fix their gaze onto the prey. So, in all likelihood, you are presenting yourself to this baby as a predator that just hasn't figured out just how to attack him.
The next thing you must realize is that chameleons rely on cover to hide in to stay safe. Your cage is incredibly stark and barren. Any chameleon in a barren cage will be stressed. A stressed, fearful chameleon feels he is at risk of being eaten. Your cage just increases his natural fears. You have stuck him in an open cage with no place to hide. He is on high alert all the time.
The next important thing to understand is that chameleons are pretty limited in what they think about--food, shelter and reproduction are pretty much the limits of their intellectual abilities. They do not have a social structure and do not nurture their young. They will not "like" you. What they will do is learn that you are the bringer of good things. They will learn that you in general are pretty safe to be around. They will learn to look forward to having you open their cage. I personally don't believe they will ever completely lose their fear of you. Others disagree with me.
I think much of that is species specific.
So, as I've said before, go to a big-box hardware store and get a big bushy plant and put it in the cage. It's not that hard or expensive.
Once he has cover to hide in he won't be as stressed. He might calm down enough not to hide in your presence. Do not look at him because only predators look directly at other animals. Look at him sideways, out of the corner of your eye. Look at his hip area, not his face. Predators look into faces. Let him get used to you and don't force the issue.
To give you a bit of my background, I have a large collection of wild caught chameleons--T. q. gracilior, T. q. quadricornis, Furcifer campani, Calumma malthe and a few others. I have acclimated dozens of wild caught chameleons. The trick to keeping newly imported wild caughts alive is water, humidity and reducing stress. I try not to even look at my new imports. Your baby is mentally in the same boat as my new imports except he wasn't beaten up getting to you the way the imports are. Treat him with care.
I don't think you realize how detrimental to his health being under such stress at all times is to him. Please post a picture of your cage after you added some cover to it.
First and foremost you need to understand that a chameleon, especially a baby, has very little defenses if found by a predator. Their primary defense strategy is to remain motionless and hide. They are incredibly adept at swiveling around to the other side of the branch and flattening their bodies to be thinner than even the thinnest branches. They cannot flee. At best, they can curl up in a ball and drop to the forest floor. They can bluff, but babies don't tend to bluff (inflate themselves, hiss, gape) as much as bigger, stronger adults. Babies are very very fearful.
Basically, if found by a predator, the chameleon is dinner. Chameleons understand that.
You are a human and very very large compared to the little chameleon. I bet you look directly at your chameleon. That's what predators do before an attack--they fix their gaze onto the prey. So, in all likelihood, you are presenting yourself to this baby as a predator that just hasn't figured out just how to attack him.
The next thing you must realize is that chameleons rely on cover to hide in to stay safe. Your cage is incredibly stark and barren. Any chameleon in a barren cage will be stressed. A stressed, fearful chameleon feels he is at risk of being eaten. Your cage just increases his natural fears. You have stuck him in an open cage with no place to hide. He is on high alert all the time.
The next important thing to understand is that chameleons are pretty limited in what they think about--food, shelter and reproduction are pretty much the limits of their intellectual abilities. They do not have a social structure and do not nurture their young. They will not "like" you. What they will do is learn that you are the bringer of good things. They will learn that you in general are pretty safe to be around. They will learn to look forward to having you open their cage. I personally don't believe they will ever completely lose their fear of you. Others disagree with me.
I think much of that is species specific.
So, as I've said before, go to a big-box hardware store and get a big bushy plant and put it in the cage. It's not that hard or expensive.
Once he has cover to hide in he won't be as stressed. He might calm down enough not to hide in your presence. Do not look at him because only predators look directly at other animals. Look at him sideways, out of the corner of your eye. Look at his hip area, not his face. Predators look into faces. Let him get used to you and don't force the issue.
To give you a bit of my background, I have a large collection of wild caught chameleons--T. q. gracilior, T. q. quadricornis, Furcifer campani, Calumma malthe and a few others. I have acclimated dozens of wild caught chameleons. The trick to keeping newly imported wild caughts alive is water, humidity and reducing stress. I try not to even look at my new imports. Your baby is mentally in the same boat as my new imports except he wasn't beaten up getting to you the way the imports are. Treat him with care.
I don't think you realize how detrimental to his health being under such stress at all times is to him. Please post a picture of your cage after you added some cover to it.
Luischameleon
Member
I'm going to a Home Depot now, I'm feeling really bad about this a
Luischameleon
Member
Panthro413
Established Member
Get some thin/small sized vines. His feet are to small for that thick branch/vine.. here is my setup, I had it all set up before he even came in 2 weeks ago whic is always the way to go. Set up a basking spot up top. Make sure you have different levels for him to regulate his temp. Sort of like a gymnasium in the cage.
Luischameleon
Member
The vines will arrive here on Tuesday, got a goof price at lll reptiles
Goose502
Chameleon Enthusiast
This thread serves another example, instead of a lesson. The OP obviously did research prior to obtaining their new chameleon, but failed to properly prepare. This isn't a crack at the OP, it's just frustrating to see the same type of thing, over and over. At least they obtained the specimen from a breeder and not Petco, and at least they have taken advice very well and acted on their mistakes. I really hope large scale breeders drop their production of veiled chameleons. This poor species suffers most when it comes to inexperienced hobbiests. Good luck Luischameleon on your new pet. Please research this website extensively, there is a lot to learn.
Panthro413
Established Member
I also forgot to mention the cage seems way to large for him. What size is it exactly?
Goose502
Chameleon Enthusiast
I disagree, a small chameleon benefits from the large enclosure. It provides multiple microclimates, and lots of security (places to hide). How do wild baby chameleons survive in practically infinite space? Answer is, they don't survive, they flourish.
Luischameleon
Member
Luischameleon
Member
18x18x36
Panthro413
Established Member
No offense but Its your opion against every chameleon care sheet. Ill go with the care sheets and breeder recomendations. And start small and upgrade as my cham gets bigger.
You can save money by just purchasing a $12 lutron light dimmer on amazon. More controle over your temps
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
@Panthro413 Care sheets are a good start but I don't take them as gospel. Everyone's house and micro climate inside the cage is different. My misting schedule changes, sometimes daily, based on things like the temps/humidy of where I live. There is no hard and fast rule for keeping any species, always "it depends."
There are two benefits to a small cage--it is easier to control food and monitor stool output and quality; and it is less likely for baby to bail off a branch and drop to the floor hurting itself. The species I work with is notorious for "disking" which is rolling into a ball and dropping. I've learned to pad the bottom of the cage. An 18" x 18" x 36" cage is pretty small. If he were a tiny neonate, I would put him in a solid-walled plastic tote, not a screen cage.
@Luischameleon What are you asking about the color of his urates? The end product of protein metabolism in chameleons are urates. They come from the kidneys. Mammals produce urine, reptiles and birds produce urates. These are usually produced at the same time the chameleon defecates. Urates should be white. If they are dark colored--yellow to orange, it means the chameleon is likely dehydrated. Often a chameleon will not defecate for long periods so one end of the urate becomes dark and quite dry. The stool is a dark brown and ovoid in shape. You want nice snow white urates.
Chronic dehydration is a major problem with chameleons in captivity. It leads to kidney failure and an early death. Few keepers without automatic misting systems can keep their chameleons properly hydrated. Chronic low level dehydration kills a lot of chameleons a year or two down the road. Remember what I first said about hydration? Mist him a lot. In a sparse cage, he is less likely to drink than if he were feeling safe and secure. They do not drink from a bowl--they drink from leaves. A high humidity environment prevents a lot of fluid loss just from breathing.
