Food Strike; How long should my girl go without Calcium?

[ChameleonMom]

My little 1 year old female veiled who is currently developing a clutch of eggs has decided to go on a food strike. I had her at the vet last week for an x-ray and checkup as I was concerned with her weight gain and her receptive behaviour when put in the same viv as my male. In the x-ray you can 'just' see the eggs starting to develop and my vet advised she will lay in 3 - 4 weeks. I am not too concerned that she isn't eating as I know she will go 'off' her food while gravid but what I am concerned about is, if she isn't eating, she is also not getting her calcium every second day with her feeders.

I know calcium is necessary in the development of eggs and I am concerned if she isn't getting enough with her food due to a hunger strike, she will 'pull' calcium out of her bones to facilitate the deveopment of the eggs.

Should I be force feeding her some crix in order to get the calcium into her or is there another method I can utilize to accomodate this? I force fed her 3 crix two days ago and 5 today but she HATES being force fed and I hate to do that to her when she's stressed with her body developing eggs.

Should I just not worry about the lack of calcium and wait till she starts eating again or should I get some liquid cal to supplement her in the meantime?

Thanks for any advice!!

 

[ataraxia]

How long has she gone with no appetite? Whats been on the menu for feeders before the strike? How often are you watering her and for how long each time? Urate color? Supplement schedule before the strike? Do you mind filling out a how to ask for help form?

 

[Elizadolots]

I believe they go off their food before laying. Be prepared to give her loads of calcium after she lays because she'll need it to rebuild herself.

 

[ChameleonMom]

How long has she gone with no appetite? Whats been on the menu for feeders before the strike? How often are you watering her and for how long each time? Urate color? Supplement schedule before the strike? Do you mind filling out a how to ask for help form?

Will do! I'm at the Dr.'s right now so I'll be sure to post the form when I get back home! Thanks!

 

[ChameleonMom]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - 1 year old female veiled, have raised her from 11 weeks old.
Handling - I handle her every day. She tolerates it well and walks onto my hand when encouraged.

Feeding - Crickets, super worms, hornworms, silkies as regular feeders; wax worms and apple sauce as a treat (1x/week, eg.) She has a voracious appetite and up until mid October was eating 15 or more feeders per feed. I feed every other day now. Feeders are gut loaded with fresh fruit and veggies, fresh every second day; oranges, canteloupe, apple, grapes, small amount of kiwi, carrots, cilantro, mustard greens, chard, mint, small amounts kale and parsley, spinach, romaine, celery.

Supplements - Rep-cal plain calcium at every feeding, Rep-cal calcium w/D3 every other Sunday, Rep-cal Herptivite on the alternating Sunday when they don't get cal with D3. I have also introduced a very, verysmall drop of preformed Vitamin A every 15 days; I started this in early October and both my veileds have had 3 doses so far. This has been included in their supplement plan to see if improvements to my male veiled's eye and gout problems could be made and to avoid eye and gout problems from occurring in my young female.

Watering - I mist at least 3x a day for 3 -5 minutes and have a big dripper that runs all day. It goes off at lights out. I see her drinking during mists and also see her under her drip, drinking thru the day. If I don't 'personally' see her drink for a day or two, I'll hand water her with a syringe dripping drops over her nose til' she drinks.

Fecal Description - Poops have been small lately and few and far between. She used to have huge poops but I chalk up the size difference to less food now. Her urates are good - solid white with runny consistency. Fecal done Nov 21st - tested positive for pinworms. Both my chams on 3 doses of 0.5cc's Panacur, every 3 weeks. Two doses left to go.

History - My girl was purchased from a pet store with pneumonia which wasn't caught until some months after. Vet didn't hold out much hope for survival but she had a fighting instinct and in x-rays last week, now has a clear lung. She is now developing her second clutch of unfertilized eggs and vet advised she will lay in 3 - 4 weeks!

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Custom pine cage; 20x20x36, all screen but has vinyl panels velcro'd on 3 sides to help with humidity.

Lighting - 8" dome with 100w Zoo Med basking bulb. I tried an incandescent but it didn't give off enough heat to maintain temps needed. I have my basking bulb raised 4 inches above screen so Isis doesn't burn herself. Two Repti-sun UVB 5.0/26w coil bulbs. Bulbs were replaced Oct. 19th. Lights are on automatic timer - they go on at 7am and off at 6pm. At lights out I have a paper panel that I loosely cover on the front door for sleeping privacy and a darker enclosure.

Temperature - Top cage temp is approx. 83 degrees, mid cage is 75 and bottom is 67ish. Lowest overnight temp is 71 F. Temperature and humidity is measured by exterior dual digital thermometer - probe is located middle centre of cage.

Humidity - Humidity fluctuates between 45 - 65% during the day and higher (to 90% sometimes!) after mistings. Hand misting with warm water ensures humidity rises when needed however these levels do not remain for long. Using Hygrometer to measure, as noted above.

Plants - Using Pothos, Ficus, Croton, Schefflera in enclosure along with approx. 5ft of reptile vines and a large piece of driftwood.

Placement - Enclosure is on cabinet in dining room - not a high traffic area although our house is open concept and can be noisy. Hence the door privacy panels! It is not near any vents, doors, fans, etc. Enclosure at top is 7ft off ground.

Located in Vancouver, BC Canada

Current Problem - See first post!

 

[Alexl]

Your chameleon has been overfed 'til now, which should be changed immediately. As usual, even the half of the food amount she ate would be too much. The more you feed, the more eggs she will lay and - sadly - the shorter she will live. Especially females should be fed very restrictively. You don't need to forcefeed her at all at the moment, that's just unnecessary stress as you noticed before. A chameleon with good calcium status, adequate UVB supply and fine Vitamin D3-level will not mobilize calcium out of its bones in some days due to gravidity. It's even completely normal for gravid females to stop eating for some days, nothing to worry about so far (but in your case... I just think she's full and stressed).

P.S.:
I wonder why a gravid chameleon should be handled every day...don't see any good reason.

 

[ataraxia]

If she is on meds, this can be the cause for a lack of appetite.

You mentioned using a preformed source of vitA to help with your male gout and eye issues. This is just my opinion as of now as i havent had an experience with a veiled needing a preformed source. As long as your giving the care you stated, i wouldnt think there is a need for giving preformed vit A.

There is two opinions on feeding a female. One is that you should limit the feeders so that they dont produce many eggs equaling a longer life. I on the other hand feed my girls more than recommended. I have not run into one instance of egg binding with my own females. It does take good all around care to compliment but they do lay perfect clutches with no issues. They also recover from laying much faster.

For your male, gut load with vitamin b, lots of water and gut load with fruits and veggies with antioxidant properties 4 or so hours before feeding.. I would also try inecting one cricket at a feeding with liquid calcium..

 

[ChameleonMom]

Your chameleon has been overfed 'til now, which should be changed immediately. As usual, even the half of the food amount she ate would be too much. The more you feed, the more eggs she will lay and - sadly - the shorter she will live. Especially females should be fed very restrictively. You don't need to forcefeed her at all at the moment, that's just unnecessary stress as you noticed before. A chameleon with good calcium status, adequate UVB supply and fine Vitamin D3-level will not mobilize calcium out of its bones in some days due to gravidity. It's even completely normal for gravid females to stop eating for some days, nothing to worry about so far (but in your case... I just think she's full and stressed).

P.S.:
I wonder why a gravid chameleon should be handled every day...don't see any good reason.

Thanks for your advice! As mentioned, I have cut back on her feeders now as I wanted to wait til she was a year old and reached her full growth potential before cutting her back. I know that less heat and less food will prolong her life and I will accomadate that philosophy moving forward. I also know that she will have food strikes while gravid but her striking has been going for a good 2 weeks already and the x-ray showed she had 'just' started developing her eggs! I am concerned that the food strike will last for the entire time of egg development and that would be WAY too long without food AND calcium; this is the reason for force feeding!

As for handling her while gravid, I don't take her out for cuddles, adventures or shopping trips, but I do take her out to weigh her daily, which allows me to be on top of her health in the event of a problem. She is returned immediately to her enclosure after that.

So no added calcium at this point but I will monitor the length of time she goes without and go forward with liquid calcium or force feeding if I feel it's necessary!

 

[Alexl]

As mentioned, I have cut back on her feeders now as I wanted to wait til she was a year old and reached her full growth potential before cutting her back.

The problem about this could be she already developped really large abdominal fat pads. Once reached this level, it's often difficult to get the chameleons back to a restrictive fed stage cause they can live from those big fat pads a long, long time. That's why I always recommend to begin restrictive feeding in young chameleons.

I am concerned that the food strike will last for the entire time of egg development and that would be WAY too long without food AND calcium; this is the reason for force feeding!

But by forcefeeding you'll prevent her becoming hungry on her own now. She doesn't need to have her calcium every other day exactly as long as she's in good condition and has fine UVB supply. Lack of calcium resulting in osteomalacia is a slow progress, nothing that happens during some days and only cause one nutritional aspect changes. You can offer liquid calcium, of cause, and your girl won't starve due to her nutritional storages... so no need to worry yet.