Food/Supplement Help!

Jamire

Jamire

New Member
Hello Everyone. First timer. You have probably heard this before... My baby Panther Cham is arriving in the next few weeks and I want to sort out what type of supplements I should use with my set up.

My set up. 60w Heat Bulb, 6% UVB Arcadia 24" lamp. I will be feeding various worms (meal,super,wax,horn,etc) as they are available to me and as he grows into the size of feed.
I WILL NOT BE USING CRICKETS. Due to noise I cant have them around.
I will be gutloading with shredded carrots and sweet potatoes.

Does that sound correct? Anything else to gutload with?

What should I use to Supplement? Something for Vitamin A i'm assuming but from what I have read I shouldn't be lacking in Vitamin D. But the occasional dust wont hurt.

For my set up what supplements do you recommend? and how often to implement them? to start off.

Thanks for reading, Its good to be involved in such a nice community.
 
welcome to the forum

you might reconsider crickets. If you get medium or smaller sized crickets the make no sound - only adult males chirp (and you can cut their wings off to silence them). Crickets are easily gutloaded, which you will have trouble doing nearly as well with the larva you listed. Even if you only buy half a dozen crickets once a week and gutload them well for a few hours before feeding to your chameleon, that will help round out your chameleons diet.

Consider adding silkworms to the list, as those can at least be gutloaded with a few things.

Other options are terrestrial isopods, termites, dubia cockroaches, indian walking sticks, and blue bottle flies (all silent) among others. Consider dropping waxworms from your feeder prey list, or at least keeping them to rare treats only (high fat).

If you do rely on a limited prey diet that is not easily gutloaded, you will rely more heavily on supplements.

But typically, one uses phosphorous and vitamin free calcium (often with other minerals) supplement powder dusted on any prey that is itself low calcium (mealworms, superworms, crickets). I like the Sticky Tongue Farms brand vitamin fee calcium powder, called Mineral-outdoor. (the indoor version has vitamin D).

Less often (depending on gutload and lighting , brand of supplement, etc) you will use a vitamin powder. typically up to 4 times a month.
I currently use Repashy Calcium Plus for my vitamin powder.

Carrot and sweet potatoe are fine, but you'll need more than that.

here are some links to info that should be helpful:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/65-supplements.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/174-whats-supplements-brand.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/659-green-leafy-goodness-gutloading.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition-gutloading.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/74-feeders.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...just-crickets-roaches-gutload-everything.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/443-superworm-substrate-gutload-one.html
 
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Thanks! Ill think about crickets, I understand they are gutloaded easier. makes sense. I will include silkworms to the list. But due to my location (Winnipeg) most shops only carry the four I listed. Sometimes not even that.

I have some questions regarding local feed (for summertime) that I can go catch out in the country (no pesticides, just good old land)
FOR INSTANCE:
Grasshoppers? Similar to locusts that I see as a normal feed. I don't see being a problem, they have some thick legs though.
Frogs? There are plenty of frogs where I come from ranging from penny size (pygmy frogs if you will) to the normal 1" size frog, some get as big as 4-5" later in the season. but that's more of a pet than feed. Will the bones hurt him?

His Father is a WC Ambanja and the Mother is a WC RB Ambilobe, seeing that the parents are both from the wild, maybe my little guy is more hearty? Cant say for sure though.


The Links are nice... ALOT of information (too much to be honest) There are links to pages FULL of links! A lot of technical information, I just need some basic starting tips. I will get into the science of it all as I progress, I just cant handle sifting through hundreds of pages of blogs over explaining things.

For gutloading I will use in combination with carrots and yams ill have apples/oranges, romaine lettuce and spearmint leaves. as well as hemp seeds and raw oats. I will mix in the extra thing as I come around to it. Does that seem satisfactory?
 
grasshoppers are definitely an option. I use them every summer. avoid collecting near bodies of water / bogs / rivers due to increased parasite potential.

Other wild choices that you should have access to are termites and moths.

frogs aren't something I would consider

you might find this blog entry useful:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/213-use-wild-caught-insects.html

also you might find buying bugs online occasionally helps expand your choices:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/171-where-buy-feeders-online.html
 
Great! Online bug buying is an option. I will pursue that.

So ill find a vitamin free calcium supplement to use often, like every other day? and a multivitamin to use periodically?

Would having meal/superworms in my possession longer before he arrives be better to give them more time to properly gutload?
 
Jamire said:
So ill find a vitamin free calcium supplement to use often, like every other day? and a multivitamin to use periodically?
Click to expand...

how often you use the supplements will depend mostly on the type of prey.... you would dust mealworms with calcium every time they are offered, because they are naturally too high in phosphorous and low in calcium. you would lightly dust crickets most of the time. Silkworms you might lightly dust half of them, depending on what they've been eating. You wouldn't ever need to calcium dust butterworms or terrestrial isopods or solider fly maggots, as they are naturally high in calcium.

How often you use the vitmains will depend on how well you gutload, the type of prey offered, and the brand of supplement (some are more potent than others). But twice a month up to once a week is about normal

Jamire said:
Would having meal/superworms in my possession longer before he arrives be better to give them more time to properly gutload?
Click to expand...

preferably, start gutloading a couple days in advance of feeding off, and gutload right up to the moment of feeding off.
 
Very Good! Thanks. Im thinking of ordering butter/horn/silk worms online.
I see they offer specific food for them. Is that Necessary? OR Can I just gutload with carrots/yams, apples/oranges, romaine lettuce and spearmint leaves. as well as hemp seeds and raw oats? +other goodies depending on shopping

Ill feed these in combination with meal/super worms. Im still hoping I can get away without feeding crickets.
I know the smaller ones are quieter from my previous leopard gecko experience so for when he is a baby (now) I will use some crickets.
But I hope not to use them that often, or eventually at all.
 
butterworms you can gutload a little with softened squash, thin shaved carrot (or lightly steamed and cooled carrot), apple, dandelion leaves and similar.

Silkworms do best if at least half their diet is mulberry leaf based. If you have a mulberry tree, you need not buy anything :) But if you do not have a mulberry tree (or if its winter) you will need to buy some of the powdered chow. Use a small amount of the powdered chow mixed with boiling water, cooled for at least half of what they eat. The other half can be dandelion leaves (which are a good gutload), romaine lettuce, thin shaved carrot and other things.

for the hornworms, easiest to buy the commercial food.

If you check the links I've already provided, you see more info on gutloading larva.

If you combine gutloaded silkworms, superworms, butterworms etc with just a few well gutloaded crickets every other week, that will be fine. I do not suggest leaving out crickets altogether (you can offer medium sized ones to an adult chameleon without trouble). And in summer do try to get those grasshoppers and termites etc. as well.
Careful not to use too many mealworms and superworms without silkworms and hornworms - you need a chinton balance.
 
Great news! Very good info. Thanks so much. I will stick with small crickets and mealworms and horn worms for the first bit, as they are readily available to me.
Ill get an order of silk worms coming and get mulberry food.
Once spring comes (literally millions) of grasshoppers will be available to me. Should I keep these guys and gutload them for a few days? With similar things for crickets? Im hoping to comprise most of his diet with grasshoppers, and using horn/silk worms as treats. Ill still give meal/super worms as well and the odd cool thing like stick bugs or waxworms or whatever.

But it shouldn't be a problem giving him lots of grasshoppers in the future? Gutload them?
 
I am not a fan of crickets either due to noise and smell. I do buy a half dozen or so a week, gutload them overnight and then feed them the next morning. I get all of my others online supers, butters, dubias, and feed them as I go. They are the only feeders I buy locally. Everything else I get online. We have some great sponsors. I order from a few different depending on what I need. Butters I keep in the fridge and warm them as needed and feed just a few a week as a treat.

I mix commerical dry gutload in with my bran for supers and add fresh veggies every day for them. I have over a 1000 smalls in a tub and they devour fresh fruit and veggies.

I do the same for the dubias. I love the dubias as feeders and since I cup feed them, no risk (very little) of them escaping.
 
Jamire said:
Great news! Very good info. Thanks so much. I will stick with small crickets and mealworms and horn worms for the first bit, as they are readily available to me.
Ill get an order of silk worms coming and get mulberry food.
Once spring comes (literally millions) of grasshoppers will be available to me. Should I keep these guys and gutload them for a few days? With similar things for crickets? Im hoping to comprise most of his diet with grasshoppers, and using horn/silk worms as treats. Ill still give meal/super worms as well and the odd cool thing like stick bugs or waxworms or whatever.

But it shouldn't be a problem giving him lots of grasshoppers in the future? Gutload them?
Click to expand...

You're very welcome. Happy to share my opinion anytime

the summer grasshoppers will be great, for up to half of the total diet. You really don't want any single prey item to make up more than 40% (ideally less) of the total diet. Variety is key. Your chameleon will probably insist on variety, and refuse to eat the same food over and over (hunger strike) - nature knows that a range of prey is more likely to provide a range of nutrients. So you'll need the other stuff still :)

Its okay to feed off a few of the grasshoppers you catch immediately, assuming the catch area is safe (remember they go considerable distances, so the area in which you catch them needs be large and free of pesticides etc) as much of what they eat naturally will serve as gutload. But most likely you will catch more at once than the chameleon will eat within a couple hours, so the rest you will need to feed/gutload until you offer them to the chameleon.
Grasshoppers eat much the same stuff as crickets. They like alfalfa (fresh and dry), green leafy stuff, sprouts (sunflower, alfalfa, millet etc), carrot, apple, crushed/ground barley, etc and I found they will eat a little of the commercial product "bug burger" made by Repashy.

as you plan to use wild caught food, remember to have a fecal float test done. regularly. Minimally I suggest one in September, to check for anything picked up over the summer. Some might recommend to get it done three times a year. Its cheap to have done, and it can save a lot of vet bills and health hazard if parasites are caught early.
 
Awesome, this is going to be good. Feeling confident.

Fecal Float Test? Care to elaborate? Is this something I can do on my own? OR should I take him to a reptile veterinarian?
 
Since you don't seem to know what it is, doing it yourself is not currently an option ;) so yes you'll need to take a fresh poop sample to a vet. You're going to need a vet who knows about chameleons anyways

if you later want to learn to do it yourself, you may find these links useful:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/fecal-flotation-techniques-etc-18479/
http://books.google.ca/books?id=FF6...lt&ct=result&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=&f=false
https://ca.vwr.com/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/fecal-float-16382/
http://www.ivanalfonso.com/2011/06/nematode-parasites-part-2/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/parasite-photo-2104/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/parasite-videos-etc-17739/

I personally prefer to let the vet tech to the fecal parasite tests. This keeps me connected to the vet office, and I usually bring in one of the chameleons for a check-up when I bring in the poop samples.
 
Last edited:
Haha, poop.

Okay, sounds good. Ill have to find a vet in my area and get aquainted. Thanks for the advice.

I got my supplements today. A Potassium and vitamin d free Calcium duster AND A multivitamin with Vitamin D (its low in D since I have a big UV bulb). Ill use them everyday and every week, respectively. Depending on what im getting in for feed.

I also got some dry gutload mix to use as a base as well as throwing in the veggies.

NOW, I just purchased a timer. How long (max) should the lights be on for? I was hoping to have them on at 8am and off at 10pm. Is that too much?

Also, I posted about this elsewhere but I have a Himalayan salt lamp that I was thinking about putting in with him. Good idea? Bad Idea? Its not sharp and its warm. Will the salt make him sick? If he licks it?
 
We feed our panther chameleon crickets. It's important to change the gutload on a regular basis so they don't get bored of the crickets. Regarding the grasshoppers. I would definitely keep some and gutload them for a few days for the same reason. We gutload with lettuce, greens, carrots, apple, peppers, and clementines. Good luck with your new chameleon!
 
Jamire said:
.. I just purchased a timer. How long (max) should the lights be on for? I was hoping to have them on at 8am and off at 10pm. Is that too much?
Click to expand...

About twelve hours. usually a couple hours longer in summer than in winter (northern hemisphere) as they tend to follow sun rise and sunset.

Also, I posted about this elsewhere but I have a Himalayan salt lamp that I was thinking about putting in with him. Good idea? Bad Idea? Its not sharp and its warm. Will the salt make him sick? If he licks it?
Click to expand...

no idea what a salt lamp is!
 
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