For everyone who KNOWS you can't keep chams in glass

I was told that babies ( which is what we plan to get) need a smaller housing to be able to find the food easily so we did buy a Eco Terra glass house for our soon to be baby but I did plan to upgrade later to a all screen housing that is much larger once we know our baby can find his food easily. I hear things from different people so I am hoping since I joined this forum that I can get the correct info? I want to do right from the start so my new friend will survive because our pets are our family and we only want the best of the best for them from the start?
 
Chris Anderson said:
There is a widespread negative stigma and general misconception, particularly amongst US chameleon keepers, that you can not keep chameleons in glass enclosures. I thought I'd make this post to hopefully dispel that myth and talk about the use of glass enclosures for chameleons.

First, I'd like to differentiate between aquariums and glass terrariums. Aquariums are designed to hold water and keep fish. They are not designed for airflow and even with screen tops, a large portion of the aquarium get very poor airflow. Glass terrariums are not designed to keep fish and are designed for airflow. They typically have wire mesh venting at the top of the enclosure and venting at the bottom. These vents create a chimney effect where as air warms in the enclosure, it rises drawing fresh air into the enclosure through the vent at the bottom of the enclosure. Thus, the enclosure is designed for airflow throughout the enclosure.

Aquariums are not good chameleon enclosures. While some terrestrial species (pygmy chameleons) can be kept in them, this is simply because they live close to the ground and the top of the enclosure is not far from the bottom of the cage and some airflow is being exchanged. For arboreal species, however, the distance between the source of fresh air and the bottom of the cage is larger and thus, it is not ideal for chameleons.

Breeders in Europe have kept many chameleon species in glass terrariums for decades with excellent results. In the US, glass terrariums have not been commercially available until recently. Up until this point, a glass enclosure meant an aquarium and the majority of US keepers didn't know the distinction between glass terrariums and glass aquariums, glass was glass.

A couple years ago I was introduced to the Exo-Terra Glass Terrariums at a show while I was helping Mike at FL Chams. Mike decided to pick one up as a display enclosure for his Brookesia stumpffi and over the next year I was impressed by how they ended up doing in it and how simple caring for them in these enclosures was. I was so impressed, in fact, I started to wonder if you could keep more arboreal species in them so a year ago, I got a couple and started keeping Rhampholeon spinosus in them since they are a more arboreal pygmy that is typically kept in screen enclosures. I liked how they did so I then decided to try raising baby true chameleons in them. The Rh. spinosus have been in these enclosures for a year now and are doing great. The babies I raised in them did very well and are now in new homes.

While raising a couple clutches of babies in the Exo-Terra Glass Terrariums, I decided to start trying adults of some of the smaller montane species. I gradually started keeping more and more species in them and I've been completely pleased with the results. All the adults I have in them look great and seem very happy. It has now progressed and this is part of my montane setup:

4030099745_85178c0e22_o.jpg


In these enclosures I am keeping a variety of Rhampholeon, Brookesia, Bradypodion, Trioceros and Kinyongia species. I have enclosures of the following dimensions: 12x12x18" (for newborn baby chameleons), 18x18x18" (for terrestrial pygmy species and older babies), 36x18x18" (for terrestrial pygmy species and older babies), 18x18x24" (for adult arboreal species), and 36x18x24" (currently housing a Boelen's Python but I may get more to house slightly larger arboreal species). Size wise, I have up to adult male T. montium in the 18x18x24" enclosures and would consider slightly larger species in the 36x18x24" model. I have all of them fully planted with organic soil over a layer of drainage, just like you would plant a typical pygmy enclosure, and I couldn't be more pleased with how everyone looks.

One thing that is very important to note, however, is that when you use these types of enclosures, you do have to change your husbandry. When I kept my montane species in screen enclosures or even in enclosures with 3 solid sides, I misted heavily multiple times a day. in these enclosures, I mist every enclosure for a minute or two once a day and that is it. Because these enclosures hold humidity much better, the chameleons don't need to be watered as much and if you do, you risk fungal and respiratory infections. Even with misting only a single time a day in these enclosures, I've had excellent success with species with high water requirements and babies.

Anyway, these terrariums aren't for every species but for smaller montane species, I'm very pleased with them. I'm now trying to find a terrarium large enough to house C. parsonii.

Chris
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perfect, now if they just had screen fronts.....LOL...jk

to all is their own way..

you can do anything in any manner as long as you provide it what it needs!

p.s. nice set up..i would use it as a mass addiction room
 
I have used glass cages with screen fronts but gave them up because where I live they lose too much heat and humidity in the winter....but things that work one place don't always work somewhere else! Gotta do what works where you live!
 
I have been studying for my ESP 172 midterm all day and have got a good view of Rhino's terrarium. He has been cruising in the branches figure eight pattern some and zapping super-worms in front of me while I study. He has been doing this routine since I acquired him in 2008. As well I have been planing on bringing a giant ficus from the greenhouse to free range when I'm at/in my apartment.
 
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Perhaps this was already covered, but what you are you doing for heat Chris?

I am beginning to jump into montanes again and am having a tough time deciding what light setup to use. Especially since the 12x12x18 exo terra light hoods only house a single bulb. On my larger exos, I have a compact flour and 40 watt tube incandescents.

I will be doing the typical stuff, T. cristatus, K. multituberculatum, T. quadricornis, and likely some dwarf and pygmy taxa at some point.
 
Since Exo Terra has come out with larger Glass habitats we love our glass habitat that we got that is Exo Terra so we plan to buy the new larger exo terra 24WX18LX36H. It is much easier to keep the humidity and temperature where it should be in a glass habitat plus Mr Anderson has made some excellent points and it is obvious that his Chams are doing really well in glass habitats. Ozzie is out growing his 18x18x18 exo terra so it is almost time for a bigger one.
 
I like to be able to have my water drain out the bottom and no worries of substrate. Glass is do-able but I feel like it still isnt your best bet.
 
Is a glass terrarium ok for a adult veiled chameleon? If so, what size?

I am going to be getting a veiled and he will be very young, so it will be a while before we have to get him a adult sized cage. But my question is, would you say that a glass terrarium would be ok to house a adult veiled chameleon, if so, what size would you say is best? Or would a cage like the Iguanarium be better?
 
I've kept veiled chameleons in exo-terra glass cages (screen lids, vents in the front) and other species as well. I have also kept them in glass cages with screen lids and doors. They have done well in both. You do have to be sure not to let water lay stagnant on the floor of the cage though. I also would not recommend them for hot climates unless the person keeps them in an airconditioned house.
 
kinyonga said:
I've kept veiled chameleons in exo-terra glass cages (screen lids, vents in the front) and other species as well. I have also kept them in glass cages with screen lids and doors. They have done well in both. You do have to be sure not to let water lay stagnant on the floor of the cage though. I also would not recommend them for hot climates unless the person keeps them in an airconditioned house.
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I live in Indiana and the humidity and summer heat can be a little too unbearable sometimes. But the veiled chameleon will be inside in air conditioning, so maybe it would be best to get that Iguanarium cage later instead.
 
You have the same Weather as me and think about the winters here also and power outages. We have Summers in the 100 degrees and I keep my house like a freezer so glass is my better option plus it is a total myth that you cannot keep Chameleons healthy in an all glass habitat. It truly does depend on where you live and what temps you keep your house indoors if you are keeping a Chameleon indoors.

Ozzie has done very well in an all glass and my friend got her Chameleon the same time as me and she kept hers in a all screen cage and hers was not doing well ( not eating and drinking) because she couldn't keep the temps and humidity up there enough but now she moved hers to an all glass and he is doing 100% better.

By the way we are going with one of the Sponsors on this forum to build our Terrarium and I think it will come out very nice once Jason is done with it :)http://customglassterrariums.com/
 
I kept my Parsons for 6 years in a custom built glass front terrarium built by Ron Rundo that I used originally for my Gaboon Vipers. It can be done.
 
Exo Terras are perfect. I use them for all my super rare chams and they do amazing in them and it keeps the humidity up and they are very aesthetically pleasing when fully planted. The other terrarium companies tanks I feel are not as nice to look at if thats a concern, and doesnt have such a clean organized look when multiple tanks are lined up, especially with the stands. They just look like some slabs of glass glued together. But thats just my worthless opinion:)
 
showjet95 said:
Exo Terras are perfect. I use them for all my super rare chams and they do amazing in them and it keeps the humidity up and they are very aesthetically pleasing when fully planted. The other terrarium companies tanks I feel are not as nice to look at if thats a concern, and doesnt have such a clean organized look when multiple tanks are lined up, especially with the stands. They just look like some slabs of glass glued together. But thats just my worthless opinion:)
Click to expand...

I agree completely with your worthless opinions!!!:D I've been keeping chams in glass terrariums(mostly custom built myself, and some exo-terras) for around 20 years with great results.....one of these days I will post pics!
 
I to have been using the ExoTerra enclosures with substrate in the bottoms as well and live plants for my babie panthers and they seem to be working extremely well.. Very easy to maintain the high humidity required for young ones and seems Misting each cage for a minute a day does the trick and is more than enough humidity for the entire day.
 
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