Frustrated by constant false information.

[comtec101]

Hello everyone. I am new to the community and maybe others here can relate but I am surprised by how much diverse information I get from petstores and even vets about how to care for my Chameleon. What I would like to do in this post is explain my setup and hopefully some experts here can agree on a few things.

Firstly, I purchased my first veiled chameleon September of last year and she passed away 3 weeks ago due to many problems. Started with calcium deficiency and she was very dehydrated and would hardly eat. Once we got her eating, I woke up one morning and her rectum had prolapsed. I was able to get it back inside her but she didnt live for much longer afterwards.

After my first chameleons death, I didnt want to give up. I really enjoyed my last Chameleon and I feel if I knew what I was doing, I would have the dedication needed to raise a healthy Chameleon. Here is my current setup:

Lighting: Repti Glo 10.0 UVB Compact Bulb from Exo Terra

(Edit: Changed back to 5.0 UVB today)

Heat Lamp: Heat Glo 100W Infrared Heat Bulb from Exo Terra
- Basking spot stays around 85 degrees

(Edit: Changed to 75W Bulb, it was getting too hot)

Plants: I have a small ficus plant inside the terrarium as well as a few fake leaves (where the basking spot is)
- Humidity stays between 30%-70% depending on time of day. Mornings its dry because I dont have an automatic mister. Any suggestions for one would greatly be appreciated.

Water: This is what worries me most, I dont have any kind of a dripping system but I spray down the terrarium at least 5 times a day for about 20 seconds each. One of the problems for my last chameleon was dehydration. Any suggestions for a dripping system or a better way to keep my chameleon hydrated would be great.

(Edit: Purchased "The Little Dripper" and it works like a charm. I think ill wait until I get my new terrarium before installing a drainage system. Also reduced the amount of misting sessions but increased the duration. Misted twice today for about 45 seconds each)

Substrate: I used to use terrarium bark but the terrarium would easily get stinky and moldy. I had a friend suggest tiny rocks at the bottom so it stays more clean. Water builds up much easier at the bottom and its hard to keep the terrarium humid.

(Edit: All tiny rocks/small objects have been removed from terrarium. Substrate is no longer used)

Feed: I feed her about 10 small crickets a day and she eats about 5-6 mealworms from my hand. She doesnt hesitate when she sees food. Most petstore agents I talk to say 4-5 crickets a day but I feel like that would starve my chameleon. Will she stop eating when she is full? I havent seen her eat from the ficus leaves but I also hear they dont eat plants until adult age.

(Edit: Immediately ditched the mealworms after reading about the health risk. Purchased wax worms for a variety but only feeding 1-2 every other day. Plan on using silkworms, superworms, crickets and waxworms as her diet to keep a variety)

Suppliments: Reptivite - With D3.
Guy at petstore said dust crickets once a week with this but this worries me if my chameleon isnt getting enough calcium because ive been told crickets need to be dusted with calcium once a day. Is there any other suppliments I should be using and how often?

(Edit: Switching to Reptivite without D3 5 times a week and reptivite with D3 once every other week alternating with a multivitamin)

Thanks everyone in advance. I realize these are very basic and general questions but I have been so frustrated by the different responses I get from vets and store agents. I want a healthy chameleon this time not a dead one.
Ive attached a picture of my chameleon and my terrarium for reference. Thank you all again.

Steve

 

[jeanjacket812]

On supplements I use 3 - repcal without d3, repcal with d3, and reptivite. I use the straight calcium every day but sundays and on sundays I alternate between the d3 and reptivite. As for substarte it is advised to use no substarte because they are a choking hazard and can harbor bacteria. Mealworms are not good in quantities like you were feeding her they don't have very good nutriotinal values and they have a hard shell that is hard for a chameleon to digest and can cause impaction

Also after looking at you pictures might I suggest a screen cage? That terrarium will not be big enough for a chameleon for very long. I know a lot of keepers on here use them for other species with good success but a veiled cham gets kind of big and will outgrow that pretty quick

 

[Julirs]

Classic example of how a Petstore sells you everything wrong and gives you bad advice. If you used small rocks your chameleon prolapsed due to impaction possibly. Your caging, lighting, temps, supplements-everything is wrong. Same thing happened to alot if us when we first came into chams-so glad you are here and we can certainly set you up right. FIRST OF ALL-AVOID PET STORES. Buy cheaper and better supplies on line and your cham from a site sponsor.

Now-just to help you understand what was wrong. Your UVB lighting was dangerous and way too much. Compact bulbs have not been deemed safe for sometime-although they are working on it. Your glass cage was too small and did not provide enough air flow. It looks like you had an analog thermometer-and I can guarantee you that with a 100w bulb temps were far over 100 degrees in the basking spot. Mealworms are a terrible feeder and can also be a culprit in impaction as can most substrates. And the supplement you were using is intended to be used once or twice monthly. You need to research calcium and supplementing.

I think if you research and ask questions you will learn everything you need to know to keep a healthy cham.

 

[comtec101]

On supplements I use 3 - repcal without d3, repcal with d3, and reptivite. I use the straight calcium every day but sundays and on sundays I alternate between the d3 and reptivite. As for substarte it is advised to use no substarte because they are a choking hazard and can harbor bacteria. Mealworms are not good in quantities like you were feeding her they don't have very good nutriotinal values and they have a hard shell that is hard for a chameleon to digest and can cause impaction

What do most people use to soak water at the bottom? If I didnt use any substrate water will build at the bottom like crazy from misting.

 

[Julirs]

For an adult female Veiled you need a cage space of at least 16X16X30 or better yet 18X18X36-with a larger volume-3 mistings a day in a well planted cage should not cause water build up. Mind you most keepers use screen, and develop drainage which is easier in that type of cage. Where do you live?

 

[comtec101]

Classic example of how a Petstore sells you everything wrong and gives you bad advice. If you used small rocks your chameleon prolapsed due to impaction possibly. Your caging, lighting, temps, supplements-everything is wrong. Same thing happened to alot if us when we first came into chams-so glad you are here and we can certainly set you up right. FIRST OF ALL-AVOID PET STORES. Buy cheaper and better supplies on line and your cham from a site sponsor.

Now-just to help you understand what was wrong. Your UVB lighting was dangerous and way too much. Compact bulbs have not been deemed safe for sometime-although they are working on it. Your glass cage was too small and did not provide enough air flow. It looks like you had an analog thermometer-and I can guarantee you that with a 100w bulb temps were far over 100 degrees in the basking spot. Mealworms are a terrible feeder and can also be a culprit in impaction as can most substrates. And the supplement you were using is intended to be used once or twice monthly. You need to research calcium and supplementing.

I think if you research and ask questions you will learn everything you need to know to keep a healthy cham.

Thanks for the reply. Ill start doing some online shopping and ill change out the bulbs/substrate asap. The biggest change will be the caging. I just dont know how people can keep cages humid when there is so much ventilation.

 

[comtec101]

For an adult female Veiled you need a cage space of at least 16X16X30 or better yet 18X18X36-with a larger volume-3 mistings a day in a well planted cage should not cause water build up. Mind you most keepers use screen, and develop drainage which is easier in that type of cage. Where do you live?

I live in southern california. Making a new cage sounds like a fun project. Any websites that can offer a package deal?

I have a 75 watt bulb laying around and an old 5.0 UVB before one of the petstores told me to switch over. Im not sure if its compact coil or not though. its definately not a coil but its not a tube either.

Edit: Its a repti sun 5.0 UVB tropical by zoomed. Does that work?

 

[Julirs]

I live in southern california. Making a new cage sounds like a fun project. Any websites that can offer a package deal?

I have a 75 watt bulb laying around and an old 5.0 UVB before one of the petstores told me to switch over. Im not sure if its compact coil or not though. its definately not a coil but its not a tube either.

Edit: Its a repti sun 5.0 UVB tropical by zoomed. Does that work?

If it is a long flourescent tube it is perfect as long as it is not old-they need to be replaced after 6-9 months of use. If it is a coil throw it away.

A well planted cage keeps humidity up just fine. You cannot re-create natural humidity-only dampness. Plant well-mist 2-3 times daily, and do not worry. Too much humidity causes respiratory infection amongst other things.

 

[comtec101]

If it is a long flourescent tube it is perfect as long as it is not old-they need to be replaced after 6-9 months of use. If it is a coil throw it away.

A well planted cage keeps humidity up just fine. You cannot re-create natural humidity-only dampness. Plant well-mist 2-3 times daily, and do not worry. Too much humidity causes respiratory infection amongst other things.

Thanks. This is good info. With screen cages how do people keep crickets contained in the cage. Do people have a small enough screen the crickets wont jump out?

 

[Julirs]

Go to LLLreptile.com-the screen cages they sell are cricket proof!

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Here is some reading for you.
Sorry you got bad info to begin with, but you are in a pretty sizable club .

http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/

You will find being on the forums very helpful.

-Brad

 

[xanthoman]

although there are many experienced and knowledgeable people here on cf, there is no one person post or website that has all of the answers (although raising kitty is an excellent place to start). even among experienced and knowledgeble keepers, there is often disagreement. this is why (and i have stressed this many times) that it is important to do actual research from a multitude of sources rather than just base your husbandry on a couple of posts (even if they are made by knowledgeable keepers) so you can make your own informed decisions based on what works for you, but what works for one does not necessarily work for everyone, as there are bound to be some variables in the scenario. coil is sort of a generic term for cfl's (meaning compact fluorescent light), but it can be misleading as not all cfl's (including reptisun cfls ) are coils, but most are curled or fold back on themselves in some way. most (but not all) keepers agree, that a lineal (long straight tube) reptisun 5.0 is probably the safest choice. most keepers agree that for the majority of chams, substrate is not good (there are some exceptions). rep cal calcium also comes without D3. and reptile multivites come in several forms, some with preformed vitamin A, some with proformed vitamin A, so further research is a good idea. if you are interested in builing your own cage in traditional cham cage style you may find this helpful http://www.adcham.com/html/husbandry/cageconstruction/index-cage-building.htm. most online windowscreen parts suppliers will cut your screen frame to size (n/c) when you buy an entire case of screen frame. http://www.metroscreenworks.com/

 

[AReptile]

How often did you feed your chameleon mealworms? I'm surprised nobody else mentioned this yet but a large number of mealworms will cause impaction in your cham if consumed in excess. You said 5-6 mealworms, was that in each sitting??

 

[kinyonga]

All you need for now for a dripper is a deli container with a tiny hole in the bottom of it so it drips at the rate of one or two drips per second. Set it on the screen lid of the cage so it drips on a leaf that the chameleon can get to.

It was already mentioned about the compact light...but for a basking light all you need is a regular incandescent household bulb in a dome fixture. It should be of a wattage that makes the temperature in the basking area in the mid 80's (because its a female).

You will need to figure out something to stop the water from laying stagnant on the floor of the cage....sorry I don't know what to advise about that.

With female veileds if you overfeed them once they are sexually mature, they will produce huge clutches of eggs. (They can produce eggs even without being mated.) Controlling their diet and temperatures should slow them down or stop them completely...
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/2007/12/keeping-female-veiled.html

Its important to provide a place in the cage where the female can dig to show you she needs to lay eggs. The minimum size of container to use would be 10" high by 10" long by 8" wide...and it should be opaque (not clear).

You asked if they will stop eating when they are full...no, they won't.

Regarding supplements...
Since many of the feeder insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus, its important to dust at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to make up for it.

I dust twice a month lightly with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A. PrOformed sources won't build up in the system like prEformed ones will...but there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert beta carotene to vitamin A or not....so some people give the chameleons a little prEformed once in a while. Excess prEformed can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD, so its important not to overdo it. (BTW...Reptivite has prEformed vitamin A in it.)

I dust twice a month lightly with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder to ensure that the chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. This leaves it to produce the rest of it from its exposure to UVB. The UVB, BTW should not pass through glass or plastic. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0.

Gutloading/feeding the insects a nutritious diet is also important. I feed crickets, roaches, superworms, etc. a wide assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet red pepper, sweet potato, zucchini, celery leaves, etc.) These greens and veggies can be fed to the chameleon as well as a small amount of fruit (apple, pear, melon, berries, etc.).

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and in other systems in the chameleon and need to be in balance. When balancing them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed to the insects and what you feed to the chameleon.

Temperature also plays a part since it aids in digestion and thus indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Here are some good sites...
http://web.archive.org/web/20060502...rnals.com/vet/index.php?show=5.Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20060421.../index.php?show=6.Vitamin.D3.and.Calcium.html
http://chameleonnews.com/?page=article&id=102
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://adcham.com/

Hope this all helps you to succeed with this chameleon!

 

[Carlton]

What do most people use to soak water at the bottom? If I didnt use any substrate water will build at the bottom like crazy from misting.

There are ways to keep a mostly screen cage humid enough for chams. The first thing to realize is that spraying even multiple times a day might not be enough to keep the cham hydrated. If the cage doesn't have a lot of live plants to provide leaves to drink from as well as evaporative surfaces for the droplets, it will dry out pretty fast. The majority of the day the cage can end up being quite dry depending on the relative humidity in your room. As chams lose a lot of body moisture through respiration in dry air (they are not very efficient at retaining body moisture as they didn't evolve to need this in the wild) they can dehydrate pretty fast and end up losing ground over time. Other ways to keep a cham cage more humid without flooding it include hanging plastic sheeting on the back and/or sides of the cage when the house is drier (winter, or summer with AC running), lots and lots of leafy live plants, running a room humidifier in cycles as needed.

Oh, about mopping up the water...some ideas are to create a drain in the cage bottom (is it solid?), keeping sponges and a bucket handy to soak up the accumulated water, use paper towels on the cage bottom, tip the cage slightly so the water pools in one spot and use a small syphon to suck it up.

 

[Befulina]

Off topic, but I love that first picture you posted. The reddish reflection of the light makes you cham look like she(he?) is wearing lipstick and puckering up for a big smooch, lol.

 

[comtec101]

Off topic, but I love that first picture you posted. The reddish reflection of the light makes you cham look like she(he?) is wearing lipstick and puckering up for a big smooch, lol.

lol thanks. Didnt realize that. Also thank you everyone else for all this information. I am going to get right to work to get her a new setup. Is it important to have a full screen terrarium setup? I found this terrarium online and I wanted to post the link and get some opinions before I buy it.

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog...een/-/18-x-18-x-36-inch-aluminum-screen-cage/

Also, I dont mind getting something bigger if it helps. Is the 18x18x36 plenty big or is it a plus to get something bigger?

Thanks

 

[Brad Ramsey]

18x18x36 is great.
I don't use anything bigger than that for female veileds.

-Brad

 

[Julirs]

How often did you feed your chameleon mealworms? I'm surprised nobody else mentioned this yet but a large number of mealworms will cause impaction in your cham if consumed in excess. You said 5-6 mealworms, was that in each sitting??

Read my post-I mentioned it.

 

[jojothefirst]

what do people think about using a 10.0 uvb tube instead of the normal 5.0 for veileds?
I use it because i have read that chams, when they have had enough uv will simply hide from it, if they have plenty of plants ect to hide behind.
So, if that is true, would it not be better to have a uv light that is possibly to much than have a light that is possibly to little?
Also, were veileds live (yemen) they are exsposed to alot of sun, so wouldnt it be better to have a higher uv anyway?