Fungus!

prettykttkat

prettykttkat

Established Member
So I've had this rescued Oustalet's cham for almost 2 months now and what me and my vet thought was a burn on his casque turns out is really a fungal infection and has started to spread to other places on his body. My first clue was when he started having a couple of patches on him that looked gray like skin about to shed but never did and got bigger. I still thought maybe this skin is about to shed but then I touched one of the areas on his arm and it was hard. I freaked and rushed him to the vet that afternoon. My normal vet was out of state so I saw another and she took some skin and looked at it under a microscope but found nothing. She tried telling me it was prob a parasite under the skin making it dead. I did not like this so I went home and researched skin infections myself. I came across fungus and learned when the skin lesion is through all layers of skin it can go undetectable this way and the animal would need a skin biopsy to find it. my gut told me he had a fungus so I called my vet and she told me as soon as she gets back she would see him and send off his skin to 2 different labs for biopsy. Well I got the horrible news yesterday that it came back as a bacteria and a fungal infection! This is common to also have bacteria infection when fungal infection is present. What is worse is that a fungus releases spores into the air and could potentially infect all my other reptiles. If this is the fungus CANV my cham will probably die and every other reptile I have here that gets it will prob also die. I have 40 reptiles + babies. I think I am going to move this cham into my garage and hope that this fungus has not released spores into the air yet. It is probably too late but I might as well try. Today he is going in for a blood draw to assess his kidney and liver function. If it is normal than he might be treatable because the anti fungal medicine is hard on reptiles and could kill him if these were not functioning normally. I am also having a culture done to determine what type of fungus I am dealing with here. I am devastated. I love this chameleon very much and I love my pets and all the other rescued reptiles here and I hope this is not the CANV fungus:( If anyone has experience with fungal infections I would love to hear about it. Maybe it could help me deal with this cham because I do not want to make a mistake. I have searched the net and read a lot on it from different sites and vet books which I printed out and will be giving to my vet today. I even found a study done on CANV in Veiled chams and I printed it and will be taking that too. UGH!
 
I have had experience with CANV...in fact it was my vet (Dr. Paré) who first started off the studies of it here and did the study with the veileds. Two of the chameleons in the article below were mine and started the study off...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9523639

And here's a site on the veiled study...
http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cach...MM.pdf+nannizziopsis&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

Treatment with itraconazole got rid of the fungus in the Parson's chameleon but the second chameleon had other issues and didn't make it. It didn't spread to any of my other (many) reptiles but the two chameleons were in the room next to the one where most of my reptiles were kept.

What is the bacteria involved?

Can you tell me if there were any pox-like pustules involved?
 
Thanks fearaffect:)

So I took him to the vet yesterday. Got the bloodwork done and a fecal. Waiting for results now.

Not sure of the scientific name of the bacteria but she said it was bacteria (staff infection). She said the antibiotics I am treating him with would work because the bacteria showed sensitivity to it. He has been on enrofloxacin for a week now and I am to continue the full course which is a total of 14 days. I have also been applying betadine solution twice a day to the affected areas and then putting on silver sulfa ointment afterwards. She is getting the itraconazole made for me and it should be done in two days, then I can get it and start giving it to him. She also took another piece of skin yesterday that she will culture after she figures out what to look for to determine it is or is not CANV. I had printed the same info you posted links to and gave it to her. That's some of what I found on the net the other day and I also found some other info in a vet book but could not print it so she is going to go where I saw it and read it. She said after reading the info on the Parsons cham that my cham had the same type of lesions on him. There is not any pox like pustules so far. Mostly there are areas of skin that look gray. There is one area on his arm that was hard and that piece of skin was removed and then send last week for the biopsy. He has no skin at all where it was removed and is healing nicely so far. The area on his head has a story. When he was found by hikers here in Colorado in a tree they took him to a woman who then contacted the rescue I used to work for and I picked him up the next day to rehab him. That woman said he had what looked like wax on top of his casque and she removed it. The skin underneath looked like it was burned so we assumed maybe the previous owner put something over it in an attempt to cover/heal it like a band aid or something? Who knows because maybe if the previous owner was stupid enough to let an oustalets cham loose here in Colorado who knows what they would do. He also had a neon band around his neck where it looked like he was tied to a tree and he broke loose? Who knows. When I first got him I took him to the vet and we treated him like he had a burn. Gave him antibiotics(enrofloxacin) for 10 days and I applied silver sulfa ointment to the area. When I first got him he could not project his tongue but after a few days he started using it again and ate like a champ. Was drinking water but always seemed thirsty and preferred me to hand water him(which he still does) he acted normal and healthy and I thought he was getting better. When he started to shed the area on his head all layers of skin came off at the very top of his casque. I got alarmed a little and called my vet but they said it was normal for a burn. I kept watching him. A few days later I noticed his arm didn't look quite right and so I touched it and that's when I discovered that area was hard(necrotic) That's when I went to the vet but saw a different vet than my normal one. This vet had me give him panacur for 3 days and then 7 days later give it to him again for 3 more days. She also had me apply betadine 3 times a day to affected areas and then twice a day apply silver sulfa ointment. As soon as my vet came back I took him in to get the biopsy done and she told me to keep treating the skin and she also then gave me the antibiotics to start.
Ok so now I think we are all caught up:)

Do you think it would be alright if I asked for your vet's phone number so maybe I can give it to my vet so she could call him? She needs to know how to identify what kind of fungus it is and how to tell if it is CANV or not. The lab that did the biopsy didn't know what type of fungus it was and couldn't tell. Thanks:)
 
I am sorry to hear that you are going through this. I hope that Rex will be ok and all of your other reptiles, too. Jann
 
I will talk to the vet and see what he says about it.

I hope you are keeping this animal in another room, away from the rest of your collection and looking after its needs after you look after the others in your collection just to be on the safe side? Don't go back to your other reptiles after you deal with the sick one each day either. Just trying to minimize the risks of spreading it.
 
Yesterday I moved him into my garage. I have always looked after him and then washed my hands right afterwards so nothing would spread by touching. I am really compulsive about hand washing because I have mild OCD. He was in my basement with most of my other reptiles and his cage was right next to another rescued cham. There was cloth between them so they could not see each other. After I care for the other reptiles I take care of Rex but later a few times a day I have to go back and care for all of them again. I water a few times a day,feed and turn the lights on and off. I also like to take Rex outside for natural UV as well as my other reptiles. Right now though I think I am just going to take Rex outside and avoid holding my other reptiles unless I have too. Do you think maybe besides washing hands should I change clothes after being in the garage with Rex? He does not touch my clothes but...what about fungal spores?
 
I would think changing your clothes can be done as another precaution. I don't know if its completely necessary or not...but it won't hurt IMHO.
 
:eek: This situation just keeps getting more complex for you my friend.

I don't know if there is anything we can do but say some prayers and hope nothing was/has passed between Rex and the other critters.

You were very diligent when you came to meet Flash about washing and "sanitatary" practices involving your visit. I am hoping that your diligence, pays off for all the critters.

I am not sure about changing your clothes, but it can't hurt. Not dis-similar to decontaminating oneself after exposure to any airborne hazards. ;)

Good Luck and if there is anything we can do to be of assistance, please let me know.
H
 
Id tell you "it's still on you, you need to wash your hands",...... but I'd have to be a real bastard wouldnt I :D

LOl Simply always wash your hands between animals, both before and after as a matter of protocol, and you'll eliminate most such problems. Isolate any suspect animals straight away, prefrably in a different room until the problem is under control.

Washing the clothes wont hurt if you suspect spores, not good for you to breath either.
Ensure good ventilation where possible. :)
 
Thanks howdyco:)

Jojackson, I am a little nuts with the hand washing to be honest with my OCD and all. I've had people make fun of me for it,lol! So no problem there:) I never had them in separate rooms before because up until now keeping everything clean and in their own cages, washing hands before and after has prevented anything from spreading to my other reptiles. I've dealt with parasites(internal/external),intestinal over growths of protozoa(coccidia,etc),respiratory illness,eye infections,burns,MBD,emaciation,dehydration,vitamin deficiencies and vitamin overdoses,impactions,seminal plugs,prolapses,etc but never had to deal with fungus till now. I really should have known better because I knew of fungus but it's always been the last thing come to mind because it's not very common, plus I've never had a reptile with it before. Well from now on after this has been taken care of all future reptiles are going in my garage for the 3 month quarantine period instead of in the basement with all the other animals.
 
Well I haven't heard anything from my vet yet on the blood results or fecal. She will probably call me to come in on the next day they are open to pick up the medicine because she said it would only take a couple days to make. At that time I hope she will have some news for me on how to see if the culture is CANV or not and what the other results are too. I am debating on buying a vet book for her that I saw online that talked about CANV and other reptile fungus. I know my vet bill is going to be expensive so I have to see what money I will have left over first. At the same time though I'm kinda like maybe I should just get it now and worry about the vet bill when it comes. BTW vet books are expensive:(
Rex seems to be doing fine, sorta? He does not like it that I moved him and is constantly in stress colors(dark brown). He is still eating normally and drinking water every time I offer it to him(his preferred method is me holding a water filled syringe that he grabs in his mouth and I push it out a little at a time, like he is drinking a bottle like a baby, yeah he is spoiled:) ) he drinks around 10 full syringes or more a day. I have tried in the past getting him to drink water droplets while spraying,from a dripper and he even has a water bottle I see him sometimes drink out of. He still wants me to hand water him though. The only time he is not in stress colors is when I take him outside or when he crawls on me. He likes me especially and will often want to come out(of his cage) and crawl on me. He even comes to me outside when he could be climbing away in my tree. This is why I love him so much. He actively seeks out my attention and seems to like me. He is also a very good boy when I give him medicine. He does not like it at all but he sits there and tolerates it while staring at me. Usually never tries to get away and is good about taking the oral medicine too. He is such a gentle giant with a giant personality:)
I have not noticed any of my other reptiles with it yet so hopefully it has not spread? I really hope so.
 
how much is the book?
I might be able to help with a few $$$ prettykttkat. ;)
I told you I would help however I could this might be an easy way. ;)
Looks like I may have a few extra feeders here too if you can use them, let me know. :)
Try to keep positive thoughts.
H
 
Aww, Howdyco you are too sweet! The cheapest I found the book is $64, normally it is almost $100. It's on A1 books, it's called Manual of exotic pet practice By Mark A. Mitchell, Thomas N. Tully. Here's the link if you want to see it
http://search.a1books.com/cgi-bin/mktSearch?act=showDesc&ITEM_CODE=1416001190

I did hear from the vet's that the results will be available in 2 more days so the book might not be needed. I am not sure if she ended up buying it herself or not. I had told her the last time I was in that she could download the book PDF on a website I found for cheaper than buying the book(at that time I also said I might just buy it for her myself so she could have it) so I'm not sure what she did or who she spoke too as I did not talk to her directly. I know today she was busy putting down a rescued sulcata tortoise:( She had taken it on herself and had been rehabbing it but it was too far gone to be saved.

I took a video of Rex today outside walking on my deck and got close ups of the fungus infection if you wanna see it. The areas are shiny black from the ointment I've been putting on his skin. Originally they were light gray and looked like skin about to shed. He is a little camera shy and is halfway colored up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg47AAR1vlA

Here is another video I took right after this one of him drinking out of a syringe like a baby with a bottle:) He really does not like the camera in his face and starts to turn dark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHH_dYJUdlw
 
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