Further Casque Concern

[Haven27]

hey guys
My Cham has suffered a casque burn about 3 weeks ago and it's been healing since, but his evening a new area looks very bizarre to me. What is this?? Infection?? Been applying silver Sulfadiazine almost every day to the burn but this just showed up this evening. I'm very concerned!! Every day I examine his casque for improvement or lack thereof. Please let me know!!

 

[Haven27]

hey guys
My Cham has suffered a casque burn about 3 weeks ago and it's been healing since, but his evening a new area looks very bizarre to me. What is this?? Infection?? Been applying silver Sulfadiazine almost every day to the burn but this just showed up this evening. I'm very concerned!! Every day I examine his casque for improvement or lack thereof. Please let me know!!

 

[jajeanpierre]

What are you worrying about? That tiny bit of skin that is separating at the tip? It takes a long time for the dead tissue to slough off, sometimes months.

Has the damaged area increased much in size? Often an injury is not noticed until after a shed as it is hidden behind the skin. Sometimes the injury gives the impression that it is getting bigger when that is actually not what is happening at all, just that as necrotic tissue sloughs off, it becomes noticeable.

If the margins of the injury are about the same, nothing in that picture looks alarming to me but I'm not a vet. I have dealt with a lot of injuries in wild caughts that go right to the bone. I rarely ever put topical antibiotics on an injury that appears to be dry and healing. Putting ointments on an injury keep the injury moist so it is open to bacteria invading it. Dry is good.

I use photographs to monitor injuries like this. I compare the photos over time to see whether it is getting better or worse.

 

[brownie64]

It is just falling off like I told you I'm afraid. But like Janet said it don't look infected just let it take its course, and keep an eye on it. Good luck

 

[jajeanpierre]

One other thing, dead skin doesn't really look dead until it actually falls off and you see it really is all dried out. I would expect that whole front center strip to fall off just like it is starting to do at the tip. The pinkness of the skin underneath makes me suspicious that he might have knocked it off. Personally, I wouldn't use any ointment on unless you have reason to believe that there is an active infection. If he is healthy and has a robust immune system, he should be able to take care of this on his own.

I'm attaching some pictures of a newly imported wild caught so you can see get an idea of the progression of an injury. This mouth injury is right to the bone as you can see. She also has an abscess on the tip of her tongue. I didn't start doing any kind of treatment on her until about two weeks ago, which is was a month after I bought her although I did show pictures of her injuries to the vet as soon as I bought her and we discussed how to deal with the injury. She isn't out of the woods by any means, but is doing very well. Her own immune system was dealing very well with the abscess on the tip of her tongue. Now she has been in captivity for over a month, we are giving her antibiotics to keep her going in the right direction.


The first picture was taken June 14, two days after I bought her.

This second picture was taken June 18:

These last two pictures were taken July 9th, three days before we put her on antibiotics. Although counter intuitive, a wild caught needs time to get over import and get settled before you stress it with treatment. It is amazing how effective their immune systems are if given the chance. It can be a "damned if you do/damned if you don't" choice. You have to weigh the risk of treatment (yes, treating can kill them, especially a newly imported wild caught) against whether the disease/injury will kill them.

 

[LindsayG]

Omg Janet, that looks so painful for her . Is that something that happens in the wild or was that caused by her capture and transfer? She's looking much better now though. She is such a cutie. I love her little beard spikes! Best of luck with her, she's in great hands.

 

[Haven27]

No, I'm worried about the bruise-looking area that was not previously there. The area circled in red showed up yesterday. The one taken soon after the burn (from this side view, not the side where the burn was worse and more noticeable) was before it looked like a bruise. That was July 5th.

 

[Haven27]

Here is today. I'm not concerned with the skin that's sloughing off, as I know that's normal for a burn. But this bruising area is my concern. Especially that little red bit. I've also uploaded a pic from top view to show there is some difference in swelling on either side. I have concern for infection!

There is a pic from July 8th when his casque was normal.

 

[Haven27]

He still has good appetite. He just are about 12 waxworms from my hand.

 

[Virgil1972]

It looks like the black part on the front of his casque will fall off.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Omg Janet, that looks so painful for her . Is that something that happens in the wild or was that caused by her capture and transfer? She's looking much better now though. She is such a cutie. I love her little beard spikes! Best of luck with her, she's in great hands.

Actually I don't think it is all that painful since she used to be very happy to bite me and bite me so hard she left two cookie-cutter circles through my shirt. She had no qualms about biting hard and hanging on. She's not so happy to try to gape and bite me now since I have used her gaping to medicate her and she's getting wise. I call her Miley as in Miley Cyrus with her infamous tongue. I had been calling her "the one with the tongue" and sure didn't want that to stick, so she became Miley as I was driving her to the vet the other day. She's actually doing great. Her horribly swollen toes are barely swollen now

She was probably kept in a bare screen enclosure and went to the ground and rubbed her face off trying to escape. Many of her toes are also rubbed off to the bone, not just the nails. No, it is not something that happens in the wild. I have quite a few from these two imports with pretty awful face rubs. None as bad as hers, but many are down to the bone. I'm waiting for the black dead skin/tissue to fall off some and will know how bad they are at that point. Funnily enough, it seems only the females had really horrid face rubs. None of the six males I bought have bad face rubs. I think I bought twice as many females as males, and I think maybe five or six have really horrific rubs. I call the female below "Bunny" for her buck "teeth" that is made up of who knows what. Like Miley, her face is healing and she has gained a ton of weight.

 

[jajeanpierre]

View attachment 162584 View attachment 162583 Here is today. I'm not concerned with the skin that's sloughing off, as I know that's normal for a burn. But this bruising area is my concern. Especially that little red bit. I've also uploaded a pic from top view to show there is some difference in swelling on either side. I have concern for infection! View attachment 162578 View attachment 162577
There is a pic from July 8th when his casque was normal.

I was wondering if that was the area you were concerned about. I'm not a vet, so keep that in mind.

I would expect the casque to develop a deviation in it that will keep changing for quite some time as it heals. First granulated tissue develops and then slowly changes to more normal tissue. This is going to take a long time to finish healing. There is probably a lot of dead tissue deep in the casque that still needs to be cleaned up by the body. A deep burn destroys a lot of tissue that you can't see. It sometimes takes a few sheds to show the true extent of an injury. As the body deals with the deep tissue destruction, I would expect a lot of twisting as scar tissue is formed.

I don't think the red pigmentation is of any concern.

To be honest, nothing strikes me as worrying. If an infection were setting in, I would expect more swelling and really, there isn't any swelling. That's not to say there isn't a cellulitis infection setting in, and if memory serves me, cellulitis doesn't cause swelling.

If you are worried, by all means take him to the vet--if the vet knows what reptile injuries look like and heal like. It could set your mind at ease. I often go in when I want reassurance all is well when I'm just not sure. Peace of mind is worth the office visit.

 

[LindsayG]

Actually I don't think it is all that painful since she used to be very happy to bite me and bite me so hard she left two cookie-cutter circles through my shirt. She had no qualms about biting hard and hanging on. She's not so happy to try to gape and bite me now since I have used her gaping to medicate her and she's getting wise. I call her Miley as in Miley Cyrus with her infamous tongue. I had been calling her "the one with the tongue" and sure didn't want that to stick, so she became Miley as I was driving her to the vet the other day. She's actually doing great. Her horribly swollen toes are barely swollen now

She was probably kept in a bare screen enclosure and went to the ground and rubbed her face off trying to escape. Many of her toes are also rubbed off to the bone, not just the nails. No, it is not something that happens in the wild. I have quite a few from these two imports with pretty awful face rubs. None as bad as hers, but many are down to the bone. I'm waiting for the black dead skin/tissue to fall off some and will know how bad they are at that point. Funnily enough, it seems only the females had really horrid face rubs. None of the six males I bought have bad face rubs. I think I bought twice as many females as males, and I think maybe five or six have really horrific rubs. I call the female below "Bunny" for her buck "teeth" that is made up of who knows what. Like Miley, her face is healing and she has gained a ton of weight.

View attachment 162587

How long have you been keeping chameleons? How long have you been keeping quads? Just curious

 

[jajeanpierre]

How long have you been keeping chameleons? How long have you been keeping quads? Just curious

Not long in years. My first chameleon was bought from Petsmart in November 2014. Since then I've acquired a large collection of wild caught chameleons. I've had quads since December 2014. I have a lot of "chameleon-years" of experience (i.e. time owning chameleons multiplied by the number of chameleons) since I have a fairly large collection. I've also bred quite a few clutches of quads and graciliors.

 

[LindsayG]

Not long in years. My first chameleon was bought from Petsmart in November 2014. Since then I've acquired a large collection of wild caught chameleons. I've had quads since December 2014. I have a lot of "chameleon-years" of experience (i.e. time owning chameleons multiplied by the number of chameleons) since I have a fairly large collection. I've also bred quite a few clutches of quads and graciliors.

O gotcha. You sure jumped in with both feet huh lol. I'm scared to get just one more. I can't even imagine coming home with handfuls lol. The girl that owns our local reptile shop has offered me a female so I can start breeding for her but I just am so unsure of it. That's a lot of extra time, extra space, lots of extra money, what if she can't buy all the babies and I get stuck with some. It's just so much to think about and I don't want to neglect any of my other animals due to baby fever. Do you only have chams? I have 2 cats, a couple snakes, beardie, tortoise and frog and those guys already take up a huge chunk of time.

 

[jajeanpierre]

O gotcha. You sure jumped in with both feet huh lol. I'm scared to get just one more. I can't even imagine coming home with handfuls lol. The girl that owns our local reptile shop has offered me a female so I can start breeding for her but I just am so unsure of it. That's a lot of extra time, extra space, lots of extra money, what if she can't buy all the babies and I get stuck with some. It's just so much to think about and I don't want to neglect any of my other animals due to baby fever. Do you only have chams? I have 2 cats, a couple snakes, beardie, tortoise and frog and those guys already take up a huge chunk of time.

Jumping in with both feet is an understatement. It was more a trial by fire. It was the best way to learn for me to lealrn how to care for chameleons, quads/graciliors in particular. Nothing teaches you more about chameleon husbandry than dealing with a group of battered wild caughts and getting them healthy.

I have a lot of animals. Besides the chameleons, I have a couple of beardies, four dogs, a cat, five parrots and a lot of chickens.

 

[Haven27]

His casque is quite swollen. I'm just not sure if the vet trip is worth stressing him out over. He doesn't like being handled and I don't want the stress to weaken his immune system. My exotic vet is an hour away so that's 2 hours of driving in a carrier and probably an hour at the vet's office, with handling and probably medication administering. So far, he's been eating normally, pooping normally, and showing that he's still licking his things for water. His casque is just super swollen and when I put some pressure on it, he lets me know it's tender. (Not on the burn, just on the swelling). Is a vet trip worth his stress?
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