Getting Cham to eat dubias

[adrouin]

my male Panther will not eat dubias. I have gotten him to eat a few by hand feeding. When he has eaten them from my hand he just sort of left it half is his mouth not wanting to swallow.

Any ideas on getting him to eat them? I don't want to withhold food for a few days. How would you like it if someone did that to you because you didn't like somthing they gave you to eat?

Thank you!
Alek

 

[adrouin]

I have no idea why this forum was moved! The context is ideas on getting my Cham to eat dubias making it a general discussion not a forum about feeders themselves.

 

[fluxlizard]

Any ideas on getting him to eat them? I don't want to withhold food for a few days.

Does he spit them out soon or sit there with them in his mouth looking a bit out of place?

If the latter, are you sure he isn't nervous about eating with you near and "freezing" waiting for you to leave?

How would you like it if someone did that to you because you didn't like somthing they gave you to eat?

Well, I know exactly how I would like it because this used to be the way most of the humans in my generation were raised. I remember sitting at the table a couple of times for a looong time until I ate something I didn't like.

I raised my own kids like this too- "You don't have to like it, you just have to eat it" was our motto.

Why? because food is the best medicine. Eat a well rounded diet and you will stand a much higher chance of being healthy. It also proves useful in all sorts of social situations. And believe it or not, allows you to enjoy foods later that you might not otherwise enjoy. I am grateful someone did this for me.

Meanwhile, my wife has a sibling whose family eats whatever they want and nothing else. The kids (and husband) eat almost no vegetables. The kids are scrawny and small for their age. Another wife married a husband who refuses food becuase it is outside his ethnicity and comfort level (wife's family are immigrants). It is always a bit wierd at Christmas or thanksgiving dinner to see him picking at a few morsals because he "can't" eat food the rest of us are enjoying as we feast.

With chameleons- I insist on variety for the same reason. Food is medicine. Variety is health. If I have a picky eater, he isn't that way for long. A few weeks of discomfort prevents a lifetime of problems...

I'm also clever about this kind of thing too though- everything doesn't have to be smashed with a hammer. Try feeding prey items that are about half the normal size. If he likes crickets and he normally eats full size crickets, feed 1/4 or 1/2" crickets and then mix a few similarly sized roaches in with the crickets and offer in a bowl. When he shoots the crickets he will pick up more than 1 or 2 on his sticky tongue at any given time. Occasionally he will pick up a roach along with the crickets. Gradually over time, you can increase the number of roaches and decrease the number of crickets until he is eating roaches willingly. Then you can increase the size back to normal sized prey items.

 

[ChameleonFan1989]

Maybe he just doesn't like them much if I try a feeder and my cham won't eat it no matter what, I don't worry about it, I just don't buy them anymore. Like us eating foods we hate.

 

[adrouin]

I think I may have created a monster by giving him such a variety! He's only 4.5 months old and won't eat silkworms, roaches, and has Ben super picky with his superworms. Crickets are all he likes and I hate them! I have some reptiworms coming in a few days and just ordered some walking sticks too. Him not liking silks is really a bummer. I have a 20 foot mulberry tree right in my backyard.

 

[OwenPowell]

My panther isn't very fond of roaches either.
I can get him to eat them out of my hand occasionally, but usually only one or two before he catches on to these being those things he doesn't like and starts checking out what im holding before just going for it.

This doesn't stop me from mixing them into his diet from time to time, though. As mentioned by fluxlizard, a healthy variety of feeders leads to a healthy chameleon.

 

[Lovereps]

I think I may have created a monster by giving him such a variety! He's only 4.5 months old and won't eat silkworms, roaches, and has Ben super picky with his superworms. Crickets are all he likes and I hate them! I have some reptiworms coming in a few days and just ordered some walking sticks too. Him not liking silks is really a bummer. I have a 20 foot mulberry tree right in my backyard.

Crickets, when gutloaded and dusted with calcium are a good feeder.

My Jackson's have never liked Dubias.
As others have mentioned, there are food preferences even in chams.
As long as he eats a variety of feeders--not just the fatty ones--and you gutload and dust your feeders to ensure maximum nutrition, he should be OK.

If you have any Bearded Dragons, they will probably devour the Dubias for you.
My BDs will eat virtually anything.

 

[Chance Leon G]

same feeding problem getting worse

So glad you made this post. I am having the same problem with the Dubia roaches. I bought six full size Dubia roaches over a month ago. Chance Leon ate one from the feeding bowl I hold for him. Then he "may" have eaten one free range that same week. Now, no matter how hungry he is he will not eat one from my hand or any bowl. The reason I normally use a shallow feeding bowl when hand feeding is so the powders will not get rubbed off on my hand. Normally he has been eating approximately 6-8 large crickets and 3 Super worms every other day.
I am beginning to get concerned because now all he will eat is Super Worms. I used to let about 8-10 crickets run free in his cage. Lately he won't eat any of them unless I hand feed him. Even then sometimes he is just not interested.
My Dubias have now had babies and when they get medium size, I will try feeding them to him in case he thinks the full size adults are too large to eat.
I am going to try some other feeders but I need to get them at a trial level due to his picky eating habit that is developing.

Chance Leon is an Ambilobe Panther over a year old and over 12" long. He is very energetic, appears healthy and is very friendly. When he refuses food he will climb right over the feeding bowl, onto my hand and up my arm to my shoulder. He wants to "go for a walk on or with me every day".
I keep basking area 85 to 90 degrees. The room temp is about 78 to 83 degrees. I have a Monsoon RS 6400 mister that I customized one of the jets into a rain dripper that mists three times during the day. I also have a little dripper running. I check his stools regularly and they are all normal. I dust most every meal with Repashy Calcium Lo D which is a vitamin & calcium supp. Also I once a week give him Rep-CAl with Vit.D3 on the feeders.
Sorry I could not find the pre-made questionnaire.
Any comments appreciated, Greg

 

[Lovereps]

Chance Leon, I believe that your chameleon is getting far too much D3---which is known to cause serious health problems in chameleons.
Vitamin D3 is a fat soluble "vitamin" which means that excesses are stored in the body, rather than being easily flushed out.
The Repashy Lo D isn't really as low in D3 as you might think.
It contains 8000IU of D3 per pound.
Your Rep Cal Calcium with D3 is listed here https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/174-whats-supplements-brand.htmlas containg a whopping 182000 IU of D3 per pound.
(Zoo Med Repti Calcium plus D3, by comparison contains about 10000 IU per pound and it is not marketed as a low in D3 supplement.)

If your cham spends 45 minutes per day on average outdoors, with unfiltered natural sunlight, then he needs absolutely no D3 supplementing.

You needn't take my word for it, as you can read what this vet had to say:
Hypervitaminosis D (too much D3)-
Clinical signs- soft tissue calcification, depression, anorexia, PU/PD, and
weight loss.
By Matthew Wheelock DVM here
AND
This vet, Scott J. Stahl, DVM
Excess vitamin D3 supplementation -- especially in combination with calcium -- may result in organ toxicity. Metastatic calcification and gout are common results. Gular edema is a common clinical sign. Additionally, pseudo-gout has been noted in veiled chameleons fed a heavily-supplemented vitamin D3- and calcium-based diet in combination with restricted levels of vitamin A.here http://www.vetlocator.com/newsarticles/pet_lizard_conditions.php

I won't argue the exact nutritional requirements for chameleons because anyone purporting to know them is simply not being truthful.
Scientific studies are very expensive and most nutritional studies have not been done specifically on chameleons, who are more sensitive to oversupplementing than at least some other types of reptiles.

It will be wonderful for chameleon owners when more precise requirements are known.
Until then, the experiences of long-term chamkeepers have to do.

That's where this often repeated recommendation comes from:
calcium without D3 at most feedings
calcium with D3 2x a month
Multivitamin 2x a month com
(Half as often for both D3 and multivitamins for Jackson's and other montane cham species)

You will notice that the calcium recommendation and vitamin recommendations have changed since the 2007 thread.
There are a very small number of people who claim to never use supplements because of the extremely nutritious diet that they feed the feeders.
Most of us use a good feeder diet combined with supplementing to help ensure deficiencies don't occur.
Chance Leon, the How to ask for Help questions are in the Health Clinic forum as a "sticky" near the top of the posts.

 

[Chance Leon G]

thanks for the info

I will try to reduce the D3.
I don't get more than a 1/2 hour of direct sunlight on him more than a couple days a week when I am able to take him outside. He does have a reptisun10.0 UVB lamp with reflector from outside the screen about 4" from as close as he can get to it. He can get out of the UVB if he wants by laying in basking area or below under plants.
I have a hard time getting much powder to stay on his Super worms, so I am not sure if he is getting too much.
However I will get some calcium for him without D3 and see if that helps.
Thanks again for your response, Greg