getting worried, and losing my confidence

[crablady]

Cage Info:

* Cage Type - switched 6 days ago from glass 10 with screen lid to 18x12824 aluminum frame, screen enclosure
* Lighting - 'All Living Things' 60watt basking bulb and 5.0 uvb
* Temperature - having a really hard time getting higher temps with the screen enclosure than i did with the glass tank. Floor is 68 and top baskingabout 6 inches form the light is around 78. thermometer and temp gun for measuring
* Humidity - hygro in set up reads 90's after misting and drops to 70's inbetween
* Plants - pothos, ficus and umbrella
* Location -Corner of dining area. very active breakfast and supper but relatively quiet the rest of the day.


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - Male veild chameleon in my care since feb22. approx 11-12 weeks old
* Handling - seldom.
* Feeding - 1/4 inch crickets fed flukers cricket food or carrots and lettuce
* Supplements - reptoLife multivit once a week. Rep Cal calcium with D3. 2x week. Will have to find another pet store for calcium with out D3. my regular store doesn't have it. Will be stateside tomorrow and look there.
* Watering - started a dripper yesterday. misting thoroughly until all leaves are dripping 4 time a day. have not seen him drink since before the cage switch 6 days ago
* Fecal Description - brown dropping that appears soft but formed. urate has been white until today, looks slightly yellowish
* History - Chameleon is very active, spending much of the day circling his enclosure. (dont' know if this is normal amount of activity or not)
* Current Problem - having written this out and analized it myself, could my temp problem be the source of all problems. i had better temps in a glass tank with a 50 watt bulb. this isn't much bigger and i thought going up to a 60 would be sufficient but seems i'm loosing a lot of heat through the screens.

Basically i'm a new owner and had more confidence two weeks ago than I do now. have not seen him drink in a week but do know that the white urate means he's been okay, however is now starting to turn a little yellow. Also. was free range feeding and had a hard time keeping track of how much he was eating. Switched to cup feeding yesterday too and know for fact that he only ate one cricket. he is 11-12 weeks old and weighs 3.2 gms. i can see every rib in his body. Is this normal?

 

[chameleonneeds]

Cage Info:

* Cage Type - switched 6 days ago from glass 10 with screen lid to 18x12824 aluminum frame, screen enclosure
* Lighting - 'All Living Things' 60watt basking bulb and 5.0 uvb
* Temperature - having a really hard time getting higher temps with the screen enclosure than i did with the glass tank. Floor is 68 and top baskingabout 6 inches form the light is around 78. thermometer and temp gun for measuring
* Humidity - hygro in set up reads 90's after misting and drops to 70's inbetween
* Plants - pothos, ficus and umbrella
* Location -Corner of dining area. very active breakfast and supper but relatively quiet the rest of the day.


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - Male veild chameleon in my care since feb22. approx 11-12 weeks old
* Handling - seldom.
* Feeding - 1/4 inch crickets fed flukers cricket food or carrots and lettuce
* Supplements - reptoLife multivit once a week. Rep Cal calcium with D3. 2x week. Will have to find another pet store for calcium with out D3. my regular store doesn't have it. Will be stateside tomorrow and look there.
* Watering - started a dripper yesterday. misting thoroughly until all leaves are dripping 4 time a day. have not seen him drink since before the cage switch 6 days ago
* Fecal Description - brown dropping that appears soft but formed. urate has been white until today, looks slightly yellowish
* History - Chameleon is very active, spending much of the day circling his enclosure. (dont' know if this is normal amount of activity or not)
* Current Problem - having written this out and analized it myself, could my temp problem be the source of all problems. i had better temps in a glass tank with a 50 watt bulb. this isn't much bigger and i thought going up to a 60 would be sufficient but seems i'm loosing a lot of heat through the screens.

Basically i'm a new owner and had more confidence two weeks ago than I do now. have not seen him drink in a week but do know that the white urate means he's been okay, however is now starting to turn a little yellow. Also. was free range feeding and had a hard time keeping track of how much he was eating. Switched to cup feeding yesterday too and know for fact that he only ate one cricket. he is 11-12 weeks old and weighs 3.2 gms. i can see every rib in his body. Is this normal?

OK well people preferably use all screened enclosures or cages for chameleons if they live in an area of high temperature.
Did your cham ever eat the substrate you have in his cage as this can cause impaction and your chams health will weaken and will stop eating and drinking.
I dont realy understand your problem, what is wrong with him that you think is different to how he normaly is....

 

[crablady]

maybe i'm just overly worried. he only ate one cricket yesterday. i was told by his breeder that he eats about 8. He has never eaten that much for me. i have not seen him drink in a week. urates looking yellowish, isn't that a sign that they're getting dehydrated? There is no sustrate in the cage and he is pooping so that rules out impactions doesn't it? is it normal so be able to see all the ribs? This is my first cham, so i don't know? Could my temps be a litlle low and be causeing him to not eat?

what is wrong with him that you think is different to how he normaly is.

i don't know what normal is and if he's ever been normal. at leat he used to eat 3 or 4 crickets a day, but the breeder told me 8, i figured there as an adjustment and destress period after i brought him home but he seems to be eating worse, not better. maybe i'm just paranoid

OK well people preferably use all screened enclosures or cages for chameleons if they live in an area of high temperature.

from reading other threads on these forums, people are quite adamant that chams are kept in screen cages not glass.

 

[coolmoon]

Changing his habitat, etc. will make them fussy. He could still be adjusting so give him some time. Yellow urates is dehydration so watch him to make sure he is drinking. It may take a couple of days for him to figure out the dripper and cup feeding. I would get the heat up in the basking area to at least 80 degrees, mine runs around 85. The rest of the temp sounds fine, only the basking area should be that warm. Hang in there, you are doing fine.

 

[PardalisGirl]

Pictures????

Hi there....I think your instincts are correct. At his age he should be pounding down the crickets. My juvie Veileds are eating at least a dozen or more sub-adult crickets every day.

A picture of your set up and several full body shots of your cham from different angles would really help. Can you do that?

The basking temperature does need to be a bit warmer. Mid to upper 80's. A cham that age should be roaming around a lot if they are healthy. They become more sedentary as they age.

As far as the drinking water goes.....extra important if it is not eating. They get some moisture from food. They can quickly get into a downward spiral if they stop drinking and eating at the same time. A healthy cham can go without food for a few days if they are still drinking. But not eating or drinking is a different story.

Pictures will help if possible.....

 

[crablady]

thanks. pulled out another light bulb and with the two. have basking are of 82 -84. outside the basking area is low 70s with the bottom of the enclosure around 70. Thanks.. i'm just a worry wart and hate the idea of a pet not doing well because I'm doing something wrong.

 

[leid]

Chameleons are notorious for stress over change. My chameleon is -still- not used to his new environment and it's been over a week. If he's dehydrated, you might want to try using an eyedropper and giving him water manually, or just wait a little while and see if he drinks when he's really thirsty. I think the latter is a better idea for just right now. Try upping the misting of the leaves and/or try dripping water directly on the snout. I have to kind of coax mine to drink by just dripping water on his nose. Eventually he'll start licking the drops.

Other than crickets, are you feeding him/her anything else? Maybe you can try something else that your cham might find more appetizing?

Good luck!

 

[Murrdox]

Pictures I agree would be helpful.

It does sound to me like your chameleon isn't eating enough. I agree with PardalisGirl that your little guy should be pounding down the crickets at his age. Try offering him some different types of food. Maybe he's just getting used to the new enclosure, maybe he doesn't like the cup you're using to feed him?

 

[crablady]

he is definitely very active. Circles his home continuously. I'm getting really concerned now, because in order to try to get the temps up, i put the heat lamp directly on the screen and he's continuously climbing around the screen and upside down across the top. i'm terrified of him getting burned, but he does seem to avoid directly under the light though. i certainly don't want to stress him out anymore, but i did have better temp control in the glass tank. (wasn't as nice looking though).

Here's some pics:

So i may be able to encourage him to drink by using a dropper? Any other ways to encourage drinking?

 

[crablady]

i'm working on roaches for him. Are small mealworms safe?

 

[Jason4045]

i'm working on roaches for him. Are small mealworms safe?

Roaches are a good staple food. You can start a colony and feed off the babies for quite some time before needing to buy more roaches. As for meal worms.... They are not meant to be a staple food source, and many will argue on thier existance as a food source in your chameleons diet. They have a hard exoskeleton and arent the most nutricious. I dont feed them often and try to stick with soft body worms ie: silk worms, horn worms, butter worms, as well as wax worms. You can use roaches as your main feeders and supliment with butters, wax, and horns as treats. If your interested in a roach colony and how to start one use the search feature on the header and search roach breeding, and you will get some usefull info. Good luck.

-Jay

 

[Murrdox]

My comments:

- I might be going out on a limb here, but are you sure you have a male? I'm missing the spurs on this one. It looks like a girl to me.
- Good news is that I don't think (he? she?) is starving. She's little, and being able to see her ribs like that is normal at that age. They can puff themselves out to be really big! She doesn't look emaciated or anything to me.
- Bad news is that she DOES look dehydrated. The eyes look a little sunken in.
- Is something wrong with the toes? They look like she's missing scales... is that just how he/she is or is she recovering from injury? Is that just how she's always been?
- The cage looks too BIG for him/her to me. The feeding cup is twice as big as he/she is! She might be having a hard time FINDING food or water.
- That's a LOT of light for a little chameleon. I wouldn't think you'd need both of those lights for that enclosure, but if you have low-wattage bulbs in them, I guess that makes sense. It doesn't look to me like you have a heat issue.

Suggestions:
- Smaller branches with smaller leaves for her to crawl in? Those big branches look a little big for her to grab onto! When he/she gets older I'm sure they'll be great. Maybe try getting some smaller size bendy vines for her, or a Hibiscus plant with smaller branches she'll be able to climb on?
- Smaller feeding cup, he could get trapped in that one, from the looks of it!
- Do you need both lights? Maybe just one light with a higher wattage bulb? Make sure to take temperature readings on the basking area so he won't burn.

I'm not an expert at sexing young cams, so I'll be interested if anyone agrees with me it's a girl, or I'm totally wrong.

 

[PardalisGirl]

Good Pictures..........

Very good pictures....They really do help. Number one....he actually looks pretty good. I was worried when you earlier said you could see every rib. His legs and back look filled out. If you can see his ribs it would be because he is at a stage where he is growing super fast and it's just naturally hard to keep his growing frame filled out. He does not look dehyrated. His casque, eyes and back hind area look plump and not pinched. So I think he looks like he is now healthy. He should be roaming around a lot.

The concerns I have are this. He is just a bit on the small size for that cage for the following reasons which you can possibly correct to make things work:

Your UVB tube (10.0 I think?) puts UVB down to 20 inches. If you use a measuring tape you can see how far down that is. He needs to spend most of his time in that range. Is he? The main bulk of your Pothos plant is well below that. I would either swap out your existing Pothos or add another one to get the bulk of the foliage towards the top in your 20 inch range of the UVB lighting. The plant can poke up through your walking branches. This will keep his drinking and foliage activity up in UVB range. One danger of having a cage that is slightly on the big size for a young cham is the threat of MBD due to not being close enough to the UVB source for an adequate period of time during the day. You can overcome this by making the top area where he wants to drink and hang out. Misting that area should stimulate him to drink.

Your cup for feeding seems a bit large too. I'm concerned that he might get in there and not be able to pull himself out. I would downsize it. I would cup feed in a cage that size for him. If you let the crickets loose he will have to spend too much time on the bottom finding them at a time when he needs to be at the top. A fully grown adult can spend lots of time down at the bottom with no ill affect looking for stray crickets.

What is the wattage of your basking lights? The domes look plenty deep to keep the light far enough from the cage screen. I don't think he can get burned. Looks like he enjoys walking upside down which is very normal for his age. Sorry for the long post. He's a cutie and I've enjoyed your pictures

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

My comments:

- I might be going out on a limb here, but are you sure you have a male? I'm missing the spurs on this one. It looks like a girl to me.
- Good news is that I don't think (he? she?) is starving. She's little, and being able to see her ribs like that is normal at that age. They can puff themselves out to be really big! She doesn't look emaciated or anything to me.
- Bad news is that she DOES look dehydrated. The eyes look a little sunken in.
- Is something wrong with the toes? They look like she's missing scales... is that just how he/she is or is she recovering from injury? Is that just how she's always been?
- The cage looks too BIG for him/her to me. The feeding cup is twice as big as he/she is! She might be having a hard time FINDING food or water.
- That's a LOT of light for a little chameleon. I wouldn't think you'd need both of those lights for that enclosure, but if you have low-wattage bulbs in them, I guess that makes sense. It doesn't look to me like you have a heat issue.

Suggestions:
- Smaller branches with smaller leaves for her to crawl in? Those big branches look a little big for her to grab onto! When he/she gets older I'm sure they'll be great. Maybe try getting some smaller size bendy vines for her, or a Hibiscus plant with smaller branches she'll be able to climb on?
- Smaller feeding cup, he could get trapped in that one, from the looks of it!
- Do you need both lights? Maybe just one light with a higher wattage bulb? Make sure to take temperature readings on the basking area so he won't burn.

I'm not an expert at sexing young cams, so I'll be interested if anyone agrees with me it's a girl, or I'm totally wrong.

Good advice. As for the gender, the tips of the spurs are just barely visible in some of the photos. And the white ends on the feet is normal for some veiled chameleons at this age. Ours' normally look like that. I do agree with the hydration and caging advice, although veileds WILL pull their eyeballs in sometimes when they see the camera. It's the weirdest thing. Like Catherine just wrote- he really looks quite good. And they will go through gangly thin-ish stages as they grow and develop. They will also "pull themselves in" for the camera, AND sometimes when they see someone observing them.

 

[crablady]

Thanks jason... i aquired a roach colony a few weeks ago. i am just making sure it is well established so that i don't have to go buy more. I have 17 geckos to feed too that I'm hoping ill take to the roaches well.

I might be going out on a limb here, but are you sure you have a male?

this is a very good question. I had a panick when I got home too, cause I couldn't really see spurs. I bought him at the reptile show, and after a lengthy conversation with the breeder, asked him to pick out a nice little boy for me!. Here's a close up of him and one I found on the net to compare.
mine

one for comparison

so I think he's a male!

puts UVB down to 20 inches. If you use a measuring tape you can see how far down that is. He needs to spend most of his time in that range. Is he

? actually, i have never seen him down at the bottom of the cage so yes, He pretty much circles the top 8 -10 inches.

As far as the cage itself, I can either go back to the 10g glass tank, or.... I'm trying to think what I could use to kinda make a false bottom so that the plants are up higher. will see if I can find a sterilite container or something that I can turn upside down.

I had a 60 watt bulb for basking but was only getting temps in the hight 70's. so i added the 50 watt on an angel. Maybe a single 75 wat would do it straight on? I'm sure as we move on through spring into summer I'll be able to use the smaller watts.

Many, many thanks for all the advice and pointers. and... the reasurance. I will see what I can do to make adjustments in the next 24 hours.

Oh... will also see what I can find for a smaller feeding cup. Started with one much smaller, but nothing stayed in it. Is there a trick to getting crickets to stay in a cup?


thanks again

 

[Murrdox]

Ah! Yup look at those cute little spurs! I totally missed them!

Prying one of the back-legs off a cricket can keep them in the cup. You can find a variety of cup sizes in those little disposable Glad food containers which should contain them normally though.

I can't recommend houseflies enough for young chameleons like yours. My Panther loved them, and it was tons of fun watching him eat them. He was not interested in crickets at that age at all. You can find plenty of places to buy cultures of them online.

Personally, I think you can keep the cage, just put smaller things in there for him to climb on, and put his food cup close to the basking spot, etc so he knows where to go to eat. Also, do you provide him his drip all the way over in the corner there? Maybe put his drip closer to his basking spot so he'll see the water easier with less travel.

One 75 watt bulb might do it. Just make sure to take temperature readings at his basking spot.

I think your little guy will be fine, you're doing a great job with him.

 

[coolmoon]

Very handsome boy. A 75 or 100 watt should do it, I would try the 75 first. I would definately add another plant for him. Feeding cup, I use the oval plastic dishes. They are about 3" deep, I remove the hopper legs and they stay in even with large crickets.

 

[crablady]

Thanks again. i think i have just the perfect (fake) vine to put in there hiding away with my crestie stuff! I'll be out tomorrow and pick up a 75 watt bulb.

picking legs off crickets.... haven't doen that since i was a young kid!! okay.. i'll give it a try.

many thanks again for the advice and reassurance! i feel better now.

 

[Sancho]

Stay away from mealworms as a staple 1or2 mealworms once a month is fine

 

[skeeta]

I checked out the stats of the basking bulb you mentioned and here they are.

Distance From Bulb
Bulb Wattage 6" 12" 18"
60 Watt 120° F (48.9° C) 101° F (38.3° C) 89° F (48.9° C)
100 Watt N/R N/R 106° F (41.1° C)
150 Watt N/R N/R 120° F (48.9° C)
Temperature average at specific distances; may vary based on size or type of
enclosure. All testing performed at 68 degrees F (20° C) room temperature.
N/R: Not Recommended for reptile exposures.

These bulbs might be for desert reptiles in glass enclosures. (they are rated really HOT)

I'm in Canada too and simply use a regular incandescent bulb with good results (and less chance of a thermal burn) I vary between 40 and 60 watt bulbs depending on the season.

Beautiful little bean by the way