Gimpy toe :(

[Kevin1192]

Hey guys,

I've had my first veiled Cham since January, he's approximately 7-8 months old, and has had no prior medical issues. He lives in a 18x18x36" screen cage in a dry Canadian climate.

Recently I've noticed that his one toe nail is crossed over top of the one beside it... The pictures will make more sense of this.

It appears to have been semi pulled out or hooked on presumably the cage at some point. It (to me, anyway) doesn't look infected nor swollen. He does for some reason sort of claw at the cage, all over the place, not just at the lights.

50w basking light temp is 89 deg
13w 5.0 UVB bulb 5" away from his usual chillin' spot
13w UVA bulb on far side of cage where he doesn't chill.

Does this look vet worthy? What can I do about this? Polysporin? Leave him be?
Any idea why he's clawing at the cage? Am I over/under reacting?!

He gets misted 3x daily and has tons of crickets as well as edible plants in the cage.. Yet when I leave the door open, (have a rope hanging from cage to carpet floor) he loves to make his way down it, across the floor, up my bed, and onto a piece of fabric I have hanging on my window for him. It's like he's desperately trying to get out my window lol... But... Every time he goes to this spot he gapes from the heat.

Am I missing something here?

Thanks in advance, I got as close as I could before he started hissing at me

My first remedy is that I'm moving the cage half in front of the window.

 

[werecat]

Ouch! Yes, the nail looks pulled out. I would treat it with polysporin, but if it does not improve (or if it gets worse) take him to the vet. Not sure what he pulled it on, but probably the screen of the cage. That's pretty common. It may not grow back.

If he seems unsettled in his cage perhaps he's ready for a larger one? One way I discourage screen climbing is to tie vines into the screen itself using fishing line. I have lots of little loops of vine on the screen forming little ladders and handholds.

I hope he heals up soon!

 

[Kevin1192]

Update! Yes, the nail is completely gone now. No bleeding or swelling still.

Ouch! Yes, the nail looks pulled out. I would treat it with polysporin, but if it does not improve (or if it gets worse) take him to the vet. Not sure what he pulled it on, but probably the screen of the cage. That's pretty common. It may not grow back.

If he seems unsettled in his cage perhaps he's ready for a larger one? One way I discourage screen climbing is to tie vines into the screen itself using fishing line. I have lots of little loops of vine on the screen forming little ladders and handholds.

I hope he heals up soon!

Ok, will do. How long should I give it before it's a concern? Or is it just by looks? I just don't want the poor guy jamming a nail less toe into stuff and making it worse.

One thing I'm about to start doing is making a flower bed sort of thing level to the bottom of the cage. If that makes any sense.
If you can tell In the pic, the flower pot holding all greenery in there takes up that bottom 10" or so. So id like to build it up so the bottom of the screen is at the top of the dirt.

Ima start lookin on kijiji for a bigger cage though.

 

[carol5208]

What is that thing he is climbing on in the pictures? It looks like he could easily snag a nail on that. I would get rid of it.

 

[Kevin1192]

What is that thing he is climbing on in the pictures? It looks like he could easily snag a nail on that. I would get rid of it.

That is just a piece of fabric I had hanging from my curtains for him to hold onto while he was at the window during the cleaning of his cage. Otherwise he sits on the sill just scratching at the window and trim.


UPDATE!!!!!!!

so now the buggers gone and broke off the other toe nail on the adjacent toe on the same foot. GRRRR. I put spacers to lift the cage so there's ample room to move now. But even still. He claws at the light, and claws at the wall. I'm going to try to string up vines like a prison cell... If he wants to chill out upside down all day then by all means but the way this is going I see a nail less Cham and a large vet bill in the future. I'll post a pic in a few mins. May take a video of the scratching too.

I don't mean to drift this thread out of medical and into enclosures but if this is because of stress or something I'd like to know

Here he is, stuck to the wall again. Current temps in that spot, 80 deg @ 35%.
After adding the blocks, he has about 6" extra usable height to the cage. I'll be adding more plants.

 

[Djturna4thakidz]

Yeah you need more plants for him to climb on. Attach vines and plants to the screen so he won't climb on it. He will prob continue to loose nails until you upgrade his enclosure.

 

[Kevin1192]

Yeah you need more plants for him to climb on. Attach vines and plants to the screen so he won't climb on it. He will prob continue to loose nails until you upgrade his enclosure.

I'll grab some vines tomorrow. I have lots of real vines planted but it'll still be a while yet before they provide shelter.

But as for the toes.. All I can do is polysporin? Is this going to be a significant issue having no nails on half of the one foot?

 

[carol5208]

I agree, you need more foliage and climbing avenues for him and have the branches and vines be of different widths. You need to get some stuff up closer to the top also.

 

[Kevin1192]

I agree, you need more foliage and climbing avenues for him and have the branches and vines be of different widths. You need to get some stuff up closer to the top also.

I agree. If you notice in the first series of pictures everything went right to the top, because the flower pot took up about 10" of the cage at the bottom. I made blocks to raise the cage up so te bottom of the cage is at "ground level" to the plants, rather than the bottom of the pot. So now it looks bare. I'll be adding more stuff in a couple hours. I started this terrarium in January with the mindset of no artificial plants. But, when January in Canada.. Good luck finding tropical plants, let alone any other house plant on the approved plant list. I was hoping this would do until the warm weather hits and plants become available.. But that doesn't look to be working out. I'll bite the bullet and get a couple fake vines and plants till the real ones grow in. This scratching of the cage makes my skin crawl

 

[Kevin1192]

Arrrgh.

So I loaded the cage with more plants and climbables. I made literally like a prison cell of dowels across the back of the cage In his favourite clawing spot. Now, he moved back to the light.

What's going on?!?!?! Is the UVB light he's pawing at not putting out enough? Too cold? Why is he going to the extent of jamming himself between objects to get close enough to the screen where he can claw at it endlessly?!

When the light is off, he relaxes and goes to his stoop.
I'm getting desperate for a solution.. He's down both nails on one front foot and one on the other now. I shut off the lights and put a blanket over his cage until I can find a way to get him to stop.

He NEVER used to do this. It started up about a week ago.

PLEAAASE HELPPPPPP

Video:

http://youtu.be/MjSs31_tUJA

 

[Carlton]

I know you are trying and have made a lot of adjustments to this cage. IMHO the cage itself is the problem. It is a pretty restrictive space for an adult male veiled. Yes, it offers height, but it is also quite narrow, leaving him few options except to climb straight up to the light or straight down.

I wonder if you could free range him...basically put the potted plants and a grid of branches on a stand, suspend the lights overhead, and do away with the cage entirely? He might surprise you by settling down quite a bit.

 

[Kevin1192]

I know you are trying and have made a lot of adjustments to this cage. IMHO the cage itself is the problem. It is a pretty restrictive space for an adult male veiled. Yes, it offers height, but it is also quite narrow, leaving him few options except to climb straight up to the light or straight down.

I wonder if you could free range him...basically put the potted plants and a grid of branches on a stand, suspend the lights overhead, and do away with the cage entirely? He might surprise you by settling down quite a bit.

Okay, well I guess it's time to start looking for a bigger cage.

As for free range.... I wish I could. the problem is that when I leave his cage open for him to wander out on his own (I was curious of what he was trying to get at..) he always attempts to climb the drywall, to get to the window sill. I strung up that fabric shown in the first few pictures and he climbed his way up to the sill. unfortunately instead of staying clung to the fabric as I had hoped he would, he decided to stand on the sill itself (4" deep) but being a goof, he lost his footing and fell.

Luckily, I was thinking ahead and rolled up a duvet as a crash pad should that happen.

This has happened 3 or 4 times, never has he been hurt nor even phased by it.. but it's just too risky. He gets super hot near the window and ends up gaping the whole time anyway.. Maybe I'll try to set up something else too though. I have a large flexarium layin' around somewhere.

I spun the lights around on the top so the heat lamp was closer to the hanging vine rather than the UVB bulb, and he's basically sitting totally still now aside from the move to the shade every half hour or so.

just a bit of extra info, he has a water drip going 8 hrs/day, and misted at least twice daily. as well as his white poop (that's a technical term ) is a bright white. So, he is hydrated even with that heat.


One positive thing about him resting against the cage is its way too easy to polysporin the damaged toes when he holds his foot on the back side of the mesh!

Thank you all for your input, I will continue to modify and upgrade my enclosure and when its done I'll post pics in a thread in the appropriate section for evaluation/critique.

 

[Carlton]

So maybe he's obsessed with getting back to that windowsill he can see from his cage. It is bright, warm, and maybe he just keeps trying to get to it. What happens if you block his view of the window? Try it and see if his behavior changes. What happens if you put the cage right against the windowsill...maybe offering a branch for him to perch on right in the light of the window. He might be able to climb in and out of the cage to the window and back on his own without falling. Just an idea.

 

[carol5208]

Don't put your branches and vines right under the light like that. They will burn under the basking light being that close. You might even start a fire. Place a branch or vine horizontally under the basking light and the uvb light about 8 inches down or so. You chameleon should be able to comfortably sit on the branch, without any of his body parts(especially his casque) touching the screen or getting close enough to burn himself. What size is that cage and why do you have three domes??

 

[Kevin1192]

So maybe he's obsessed with getting back to that windowsill he can see from his cage. It is bright, warm, and maybe he just keeps trying to get to it. What happens if you block his view of the window? Try it and see if his behavior changes. What happens if you put the cage right against the windowsill...maybe offering a branch for him to perch on right in the light of the window. He might be able to climb in and out of the cage to the window and back on his own without falling. Just an idea.

His cage is approximately 6" from the window, and that's as far as it'll go as it sits inside of a shortened fooseball table, which is the drain. Half the cage is positioned to be blasted by the sun while the other half is shielded by the wall and thick vegetation for shade.
He does indeed however have tons of stuff to hold onto and rest on that is directly in line with sunlight, ie. no vegetation to block the sun.

As for behavior, that's where things started making sense. When the window was open, (provided too much heat when he was close to it) he would frantically attack the side of the cage trying to get to it. Now, when the drapes are closed and that super heated spot is no longer available, he then turns to the light, presumably trying to get closer to it for heat. Now that I have branches and vines real close to the light, he seems to have found his new hang out spot; as close to it as he can get.

Don't put your branches and vines right under the light like that. They will burn under the basking light being that close. You might even start a fire. Place a branch or vine horizontally under the basking light and the uvb light about 8 inches down or so. You chameleon should be able to comfortably sit on the branch, without any of his body parts(especially his casque) touching the screen or getting close enough to burn himself. What size is that cage and why do you have three domes??

Not sure if you noticed this, but for what its worth, its just a normal 50 watt light bulb, not a fancy specific basking bulb, if that changes anything. The reason why I did that was to block him from being able to get his ...hands? close enough to the mesh to scratch at it. I do understand your point though and have moved it all away. We'll see what happens.

I should know this, but whats a "casque?"

I can assure you, the mesh is no where near hot enough to burn him even if he did come in contact. While my terrarium apparently needs improvement, I made sure temperatures and humidity are in spec, or with humidity as close as I can reasonably get.

its a 18x18x36" cage. I know the 2x2x4' is ideal but this is what I was able to find for now. Will upgrade when I come across a deal.

And finally, for the 3 domes, the double dome has a 50w lightbulb, as well as a 13w 5.0 UVB compact fluorescent bulb within it. The other single chrome dome has a 13w UVA bulb for plant growth. It puts out almost no heat, same with the UVB.

I appreciate all the help. I'll get this figured out sooner or later. I have plans to do a total renovation, but its not quite in the budget yet. I wish I had a couple grand to throw at something totally bananas, but for now this will have to suffice.

 

[Drew1405]

Okay, well I guess it's time to start looking for a bigger cage.

If you are going to consider a new cage, would you be interested in the idea of building one yourself? I done this for my cham when he outgrew his baby cage. I looked at lots of cages online before deciding to make my own and it was relatively inexpensive compared to buying one. I think all in all I spent about £40-£50 on the materials to make mine from B&Q and the size of it is almost 5ft high by 2ft wide by 2ft deep. I used a large hole mesh on the inside of the cage and then a fine mesh on the outside. That way on the inside he can climb happily on the large hole mesh if he wants without snagging a toe in the fine mesh on the other side. There is about 2cm or so of distance between the two meshes dictated by the thickness of the wood used to construct the frame.

 

[Kevin1192]

Duplicate post

 

[Kevin1192]

If you are going to consider a new cage, would you be interested in the idea of building one yourself? I done this for my cham when he outgrew his baby cage. I looked at lots of cages online before deciding to make my own and it was relatively inexpensive compared to buying one. I think all in all I spent about £40-£50 on the materials to make mine from B&Q and the size of it is almost 5ft high by 2ft wide by 2ft deep. I used a large hole mesh on the inside of the cage and then a fine mesh on the outside. That way on the inside he can climb happily on the large hole mesh if he wants without snagging a toe in the fine mesh on the other side. There is about 2cm or so of distance between the two meshes dictated by the thickness of the wood used to construct the frame.

I have considered that, for sure. And it's looking more and more realistic. That's a genius idea! I may have to copy it. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Drew1405]

I have considered that, for sure. And it's looking more and more realistic. That's a genius idea! I may have to copy it. Thanks for the tip.

No worries. If you ever want any advice on building it or to see photos of my own etc just give me a shout

 

[Kevin1192]

No worries. If you ever want any advice on building it or to see photos of my own etc just give me a shout

Thanks! I appreciate it