Given a sick Chameleon! L@@K!

[jwnorris]

Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - Female Veiled Cham - age (unknown) maybe 1 year or slightly less

* Handling - Rare
* Feeding - Gut Loaded Crickets then calcium dusted sometimes (the fish food and cat food had d3 in the crickets eat)

* Supplements - Crickets eat on a mixture of tropical fish food/cat food
* Watering - 18 inch waterfall
* Fecal Description - Like bird poop. White outside with a chocolate center. sometimes just white. (has gotten to more white)
* History - Picked her up a few weeks ago from some people who said they could'nt take care of her anymore (from craigslist)

Cage Info:

* Cage Type - thin cloth mesh, has great air flow. adequate size/dimensions
* Lighting - UVB 10.0 and a reti-halogen 100 watt heatlamp
* Temperature - bottom 75 degrees mid 80-85 top near heat lamp is warmer (but cannot get directly under it)
* Humidity - Spray 3 times a day when I can.
* Plants - no live plants
* Placement - papertowl to collect waste. Waterfall in corner. fake bendable branches throughout; fake greenage above waterfall, under light and generally scattered. Will admit, IMO it's alittle bare.
* Location - Atlanta, GA

Current Problem - Responded to a ad on craigslist for a veiled chameleon. The owners couldn't take care of it anymore. She looked a little frail at the time but she ate instantly when I got her cage completely setup when I got her home. All accept for the front teeth. She has scaring there and it appears to till be scabbed. They said she fell when a branch or the green leaves fell off the cage and onto the floor of the cage. Other than that when I checked her mouth it looked ok (only could check by looking in when she was in defense)

Jumping forward to now, a few weeks later, she is looking sad. I havent seen her eat in a while. ( i can sit away from the cage and watch her, when she was active) A while being at least a week.

Well, after checking her today it was time to force feed or continue to watch her continue to shrivel up.

I folded up a piece of paper not sharp, but folded enough times to be thin yet have a nice rounded edge. As I place the edge between her lips, she instantly opened her mouth and turned her head and bit down on the side of her jaw. To my dismay I see her jaw i broken directly in the middle! Am still terribly upset over what I saw. I do not know how it happened. I do not know if the previous people knew of it this or not. And it was not from the paper.

With that being said. I still took advantage of her opening her mouth and after I crushed a cricket on the head <less movement for her swallow> and slid in her mouth. She chomped it down. She took down three. After three I felt I needed to stop first and post this. I am sure the jaw is painful for her and eating as well.

Her eyes are not full in the sockets anymore either. I S this a sign of dehydration? I could assume since she probably does not feel like drinking with her jaw.

How to treat a broken jaw? Anyone have any ideas? I was not prepared for this and cannot take to her a vet. I live in a inner city and just the 5 places I called around checking only treat furry things..


I like this little guy and want to help it the best I can but again, I was not prepared for this. Throw me suggestions. I read about superglue and paperclipping the jaw so it cant move. But Superglu on her skin????

can't give picture right now. my camera will not do close ups in detail. Can later when my friend comes with a camera.

Thank you for reading!

 

[ricardo velthuizen]

Just feed with alot of calcium and vitamine's

give her water drups with a little dripper so you can make sure she gets watter.

This problem is shurely a calcium shortage from a wile ago.

The only thing you could do is feed her properly with much calcium and d3 and wat you can do is put her in the sun if the temps are ok. otherwise you can put her under your uv bulb(pik her up and hold her under the lamp so she can pic up as much as possible repaet this several times a day.)

Cal your vet for a little painkiller then its easier to eat for her.

Change theuv bulb 10.0 for max a 6.0. in holland were using arcadia d3 6% uv-b

 

[draetish]

Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - Female Veiled Cham - age (unknown) maybe 1 year or slightly less

* Handling - Rare
* Feeding - Gut Loaded Crickets then calcium dusted sometimes (the fish food and cat food had d3 in the crickets eat)Gutload for crickets should be dark leafy greens like collard or turnip greens, carrots, squash, fruit

* Supplements - Crickets eat on a mixture of tropical fish food/cat foodsee gutload above. Supplements is what you dust your feeders with and should be calcium no D3 every other day in this case and a good vitamin supplment like Reptivite no D3, D3 can be given once a week in this case.
* Watering - 18 inch waterfallWaterfalls harbor bacteria and chams don't drink standing water. You need a clean water source from a dripper that drips onto leaves and falls into a drain bucket. DO NOT RE-USE THE WATER.
* Fecal Description - Like bird poop. White outside with a chocolate center. sometimes just white. (has gotten to more white) THIS IS GOOD
* History - Picked her up a few weeks ago from some people who said they could'nt take care of her anymore (from craigslist)

Cage Info:

* Cage Type - thin cloth mesh, has great air flow. adequate size/dimensions
* Lighting - UVB 10.0 and a reti-halogen 100 watt heatlamp10.0 Is not recommended unless you have a very large enclosure. Reptisun 5.0 linear bulb is best, no coil bulbs.
* Temperature - bottom 75 degrees mid 80-85 top near heat lamp is warmer (but cannot get directly under it)
* Humidity - Spray 3 times a day when I can.YOU MUST PROVIDE A WATER SOURCE THROUGHOUT THE DAY
* Plants - no live plants LIVE PLANTS ARE BEST AS THEY AID IN HUMIDITY
* Placement - papertowl to collect waste. Waterfall in corner. fake bendable branches throughout; fake greenage above waterfall, under light and generally scattered. Will admit, IMO it's alittle bare.
* Location - Atlanta, GA

Current Problem - Responded to a ad on craigslist for a veiled chameleon. The owners couldn't take care of it anymore. She looked a little frail at the time but she ate instantly when I got her cage completely setup when I got her home. All accept for the front teeth. She has scaring there and it appears to till be scabbed. They said she fell when a branch or the green leaves fell off the cage and onto the floor of the cage. Other than that when I checked her mouth it looked ok (only could check by looking in when she was in defense)

Jumping forward to now, a few weeks later, she is looking sad. I havent seen her eat in a while. ( i can sit away from the cage and watch her, when she was active) A while being at least a week.

Well, after checking her today it was time to force feed or continue to watch her continue to shrivel up.

I folded up a piece of paper not sharp, but folded enough times to be thin yet have a nice rounded edge. As I place the edge between her lips, she instantly opened her mouth and turned her head and bit down on the side of her jaw. To my dismay I see her jaw i broken directly in the middle! Am still terribly upset over what I saw. I do not know how it happened. I do not know if the previous people knew of it this or not. And it was not from the paper.

With that being said. I still took advantage of her opening her mouth and after I crushed a cricket on the head <less movement for her swallow> and slid in her mouth. She chomped it down. She took down three. After three I felt I needed to stop first and post this. I am sure the jaw is painful for her and eating as well.

Her eyes are not full in the sockets anymore either. I S this a sign of dehydration? I could assume since she probably does not feel like drinking with her jaw.

How to treat a broken jaw? Anyone have any ideas? I was not prepared for this and cannot take to her a vet. I live in a inner city and just the 5 places I called around checking only treat furry things..


I like this little guy and want to help it the best I can but again, I was not prepared for this. Throw me suggestions. I read about superglue and paperclipping the jaw so it cant move. But Superglu on her skin????

can't give picture right now. my camera will not do close ups in detail. Can later when my friend comes with a camera.

Thank you for reading!

For the broken jaw, I wouldn't try anything to fix it, just continue to feed and water her good, it should heal on it's own.

 

[jwnorris]

This fish food and cat food mixture which the crickets eat the mess out of has tons of nutrition. Im perplexed now that I hear this instead.. I don't understand the difference on how the nutrients are obtained as long as they have them. No No, this stuff has something that is a Source of D3 not a gutloader of d3.

either way.. my g/f is a vegan her food could actually become useful to me then..

I;m sort of religious on cleaning the waterfall thing.. i fully clean it once a week as well as the dropping in the cage, vinegar and baking soda then rinsed with scalding hot water.. and i've seen her drink from it like a champ.. I do have a old dripper I can revert back to.. even though they are a nuisance..

I agree on the live plants. After looking into them I discovered I must build a new cage for her before I go that route. Which I cannot do until After my quarter ends in 2 weeks.

About the UVB 10.0 Yes I understand it's powerful, tis all they had at the time for 24" fixtures. However, I don't let it run all day and into the night, at most about 8 hours. Is this acceptable? When I got her their lamp didn't work or was blown or something.. so I bought one the next day knowing they Need UVB.


About the calcium and vitamin supplments.

Would it be feasible to get the calcium and vitamin.. make a mixture in a few drops of water and use a syringe to pump it into the cricket before being fed?


I hope the jaw heals on its own. That poor thing hates seeing me now probably from me feeding it with it's poor jaw.

 

[draetish]

This fish food and cat food mixture which the crickets eat the mess out of has tons of nutrition. Im perplexed now that I hear this instead.. I don't understand the difference on how the nutrients are obtained as long as they have them. No No, this stuff has something that is a Source of D3 not a gutloader of d3. The fish and cat food probably have a load of protein that can cause gout in chams. you don't want to overdo D3, that causes more health issues. think about this, in the wild, the chams eat feeders that feed on natural vegitation and they get their D3 from the sun. Since they are out of their natural habitat we have to supplement them correctly.

either way.. my g/f is a vegan her food could actually become useful to me then..

I;m sort of religious on cleaning the waterfall thing.. i fully clean it once a week as well as the dropping in the cage, vinegar and baking soda then rinsed with scalding hot water.. and i've seen her drink from it like a champ.. I do have a old dripper I can revert back to.. even though they are a nuisance..to be safe, I would ditch the waterfall and go with the dripper.

I agree on the live plants. After looking into them I discovered I must build a new cage for her before I go that route. Which I cannot do until After my quarter ends in 2 weeks.

About the UVB 10.0 Yes I understand it's powerful, tis all they had at the time for 24" fixtures. However, I don't let it run all day and into the night, at most about 8 hours. Is this acceptable? When I got her their lamp didn't work or was blown or something.. so I bought one the next day knowing they Need UVB. you can order a 5.0 from LLLreptiles (one of our sponsers and use the 10.0 for now. In the long run the 10.0 will cause eye issues possibly.


About the calcium and vitamin supplments.

Would it be feasible to get the calcium and vitamin.. make a mixture in a few drops of water and use a syringe to pump it into the cricket before being fed?do not mix supplements together but you can pump either or into the feeders. Another good supplement for sickly chams is ReptAid, it is an all natural supplement that gets a cham back on track providing they don't need antibotics. You can google that to buy online (only can get online)


I hope the jaw heals on its own. That poor thing hates seeing me now probably from me feeding it with it's poor jaw.

You may want to mix crickets, collard greens, carrots and pedilyte in a food processor and feed her a liquid diet for now..

 

[ricardo velthuizen]

there's one more thing if you use the 10.0 the possibility is her to get severe burning injuy's.

@dreatish wy dont mix the supplement's up can you explain?

 

[draetish]

there's one more thing if you use the 10.0 the possibility is her to get severe burning injuy's.

@dreatish wy dont mix the supplement's up can you explain?

You don't want to mix the supplements together on a daily basis as you do not use all everyday. I guess if it's time to give the vitamin supplment and calcium, then you could mix them.

 

[ricardo velthuizen]

ah i get it.

i thougt that you tryed to say that its bad to mix because it wil looses is workings(dont know the english word sorry).

But it depents if your cham needs it every day.
well in this case i think he should mix it up right?

 

[draetish]

ah i get it.

i thougt that you tryed to say that its bad to mix because it wil looses is workings(dont know the english word sorry).

But it depents if your cham needs it every day.
well in this case i think he should mix it up right?

You are right and yes, you don't want to inject one feeder with one suppl and another feeder with another supplement if giving them at the same time.

 

[carol5208]

Is it possible the jaw has MBD(metabolic bone disease) and is out of alignment from that? I would love to see a pic of the cham and also a pic of its limbs. Are the legs curved?

 

[draetish]

Is it possible the jaw has MBD(metabolic bone disease) and is out of alignment from that? I would love to see a pic of the cham and also a pic of its limbs. Are the legs curved?

Great observation Carol and very possible given the shape this cham seems to be in.

 

[ricardo velthuizen]

I think it iss but he says that he cant posts foto's right now so well have to do it with this info right now.

 

[jwnorris]

will post a high rez pic as soon as my camera person gets here.

 

[jwnorris]

Is it possible the jaw has MBD(metabolic bone disease) and is out of alignment from that? I would love to see a pic of the cham and also a pic of its limbs. Are the legs curved?

Yes the legs aren't looking good.

It looks like she has multiple joints by her knee. If this is the case. What is the chance of recovery? Pumping her full of calcium will over time make her bones stronger yes? But what about the curvature of the legs? Are they broke? Seriously that bendable ? CAn they be splinted?

 

[carol5208]

It sounds like MBD. They are probably not broken(but might appear to be )just deformed from a calcium deficiency. A veterinarian will be able to give your chameleon calcium injections which will help. From what I understand the MBD can get better but you can never fully reverse the damage that is done. You can prevent it from getting worse though. The casque and the jaw can also be effected that is why I was saying the jaw is probably not broken either, but more than likely effected by MBD also.

 

[kinyonga]

Hopefully once you post some pictures we can give you a better idea of what's going on.

The problems with fish food and cat food is that although they contain a lot of nutritious things, they also contain things that are not good for the chameleons....like prEformed vitamin A.

If this chameleon has MBD, you will need to bring the nutrients back into balance and then once the bones are strong again, maintain a balance to keep them there. The most important nutrients involved in this are calcium, phosphorus, prEformed vitamin A And D3. Unfortunately calcium imbalance affects not only the bones but other systems in the chameleon as well. If the damage isn't too bad she could still live a long life once/if its corrected.

Since its a female you are dealing with, there is a possibility that she is carrying/producing eggs so I would put a container of moistened washed playsand (at least 12" deep x 12" x 8") in her cage so she can dig to lay them if need be. They can produce eggs even when not mated.

Here's some information you might like to read.....
Exposure to proper UVB, appropriate temperatures, supplements, a supply of well-fed/gutloaded insects, water and an appropriate cage set-up are all important for the well-being of your chameleon.

Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

Since many of the feeder insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects before you feed them to the chameleon with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it.

If you dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. (Some UVB lights have been known to cause health issues, so the most often recommended one is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light.) D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it.

Dusting twice a month with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while.

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs....so its important too. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.

Here are some good sites for you to read...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200604210...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/