Graphic - Please help...

[Andee]

What I do with my chameleons (all of them, if I want to watch them drink) is I set my hand mister which is a pump mister, to do slightly larger drops so it kind of falls like rain and do boiled water from my tea kettle that I cool with cold water from the tap so that when the water comes out it warm to the touch but not hot. What I've noticed with every single one of my chameleons (blind ones and MBD ridden ones, also my chameleons who will drink from finer mists eventually) is that when the drops are larger and more rain like, and also the water is a bit warmer, they are stimulater to drink much faster and also even my water hating guys will sit there and drink as the water drips on them. I make sure, for my water hating guys, to mist above them so that if anything hits them it's the weaker drops that are more like falling. I am hoping it's fixable but if it's neurological there's honestly not much you can do and I would urge you to put him down because he is not able to be a chameleon. But at the moment I would definitely try getting food in him and water first before giving up completely.

Here's the link I promised- https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/medicating-chameleons-possibly-disturbing-pictures.156611/

 

[Nagyb]

For carnivore care he should only have .5 ml/cc at one feeding an I think in the beginning he should only have 1cc/ml a day. if he does better you can increase it to 1.5. if he doesn't do better once he has food and water in him over I would say like... 3 days or so. I would be worried it has to do with poor genetics or a neurological issue that happened at birth. Which would never get better and he would likely have to be put down. How long have you had him and how long has he bee. Showing these symptoms... I personally would get rid of the exo-terra multivitamin too, they definitely aren't my preferred. If you are keeping his wounds moist definitely keep bandaging them when you apply the polysporin. It will help with healing. When you force feed make sure to do it right. If you haven't already make sure to check out my thread, medicating chameleons. I will linky directly in a sec. Hydrogen peroxide doesnt really sting but it does caus bubbling and weird sensations. Though I might go with @Nursemaia suggestion. I always prefer silvadene to be honest. It's just hard to get without vet consent. I always have back up tubes. It is an amazing cream.

The vet advised me to give him Carnivore Care Mix. I forgot how much they told me, but I do remember it only being a droplets worth into his mouth. They had told me if I could get more in there, that it would not hurt him and it would benefit him in the long run. So I ended up giving him a syringe full every day until each time I saw her, which was like once a week or sometimes once every two weeks to see how he progresses. Which he has not at all... This is over the course of three months, almost everyday giving him a syringe full. So, basically since it has done nothing, there might not be anything else I can do for him?

 

[Andee]

Other than making sure he's hydrated... probably not .____. the only other thing I could think it is, is hydration

 

[Nagyb]

What I do with my chameleons (all of them, if I want to watch them drink) is I set my hand mister which is a pump mister, to do slightly larger drops so it kind of falls like rain and do boiled water from my tea kettle that I cool with cold water from the tap so that when the water comes out it warm to the touch but not hot. What I've noticed with every single one of my chameleons (blind ones and MBD ridden ones, also my chameleons who will drink from finer mists eventually) is that when the drops are larger and more rain like, and also the water is a bit warmer, they are stimulater to drink much faster and also even my water hating guys will sit there and drink as the water drips on them. I make sure, for my water hating guys, to mist above them so that if anything hits them it's the weaker drops that are more like falling. I am hoping it's fixable but if it's neurological there's honestly not much you can do and I would urge you to put him down because he is not able to be a chameleon. But at the moment I would definitely try getting food in him and water first before giving up completely.

Here's the link I promised- https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/medicating-chameleons-possibly-disturbing-pictures.156611/

Thank you for this share, I truly appreciate it! Everything you wrote, is actually what I have been doing! So I'm glad through all of this, I am at least doing something right.

 

[Nagyb]

Other than making sure he's hydrated... probably not .____. the only other thing I could think it is, is hydration

Wow, my heart truly hurts now :'( I was hoping this was not the case. I will work on hydrating him more and more, and if nothing changes, I will talk to my boyfriend some more about putting him down. This makes me so upset...

 

[Andee]

I am so sorry hun, I hope someone responds with something else you can try, but I can't think of anything. I would wait for ferretinmyshoes to respond for sure. She is a vet who knows a ton about chameleons. Hoping for you and buddy for the best outcome .... .___. so much good vibes coming your way

 

[JacksJill]

If your vet has reached the limit of their knowledge then you might want to consider a second opinion. You can have your vet send the radiographs and records to another vet of your choice to see what they think.
If you want to try more a second opinion is probably your best bet. If not it don't sound like he has the best quality of life. I'm sure you will make the right decision whatever that is.

 

[Nagyb]

I am so sorry hun, I hope someone responds with something else you can try, but I can't think of anything. I would wait for ferretinmyshoes to respond for sure. She is a vet who knows a ton about chameleons. Hoping for you and buddy for the best outcome .... .___. so much good vibes coming your way

Thank you so much for your input. I will wait and hope ferretinmyshoes replies and suggests something for me as well.

 

[Nagyb]

I just want to take the time to thank everyone for the replies and suggestions I have been given so far. This definitely hasn't been easy for me. It has been one of the toughest things to watch him struggle with whatever is happening with him, knowing I cannot do much more than what I am doing right now. I have been praying for some sort of miracle. I never knew I would really love him this much and end up forming such an attachment to him, while now knowing I possibly have to do the one thing I could not ever imagine having to do.

 

[kinyonga]

I would take it to another vet and wait for ferrit to post in the meantime.

 

[Chameleon Crazy Chick]

I'm so sorry. I'm praying for the little guy... He seems really sweet from the pictures. I love him already.
There's not much more that I can say, other than that the entire Forums is behind you. We will support you, no matter what!

 

[Remkon]

This may be a long shot but you seem to have tried just about everything with your chameleon but what about in and around the enclosure?

What kind of fake plants are you using, just any you could find or 'special' reptile ones?
Use of (cleaning) chemicals in the basement? Mold even ...I don't know... Maybe you can move the enclosure in to the house and see if it changes anything.

Like I said, far fetched.

 

[Decadancin]

I know this was already mentioned, but I'm leaning towards neurological issues. (Not an expert, but nothing else seems to add up)

 

[Chachi]

Not so far fetched. Anything in the air that may be nothing to us can be a disaster for little lungs. NagyB, At this point, check everything you can think of.
I'm so sorry.

 

[Nagyb]

This may be a long shot but you seem to have tried just about everything with your chameleon but what about in and around the enclosure?

What kind of fake plants are you using, just any you could find or 'special' reptile ones?
Use of (cleaning) chemicals in the basement? Mold even ...I don't know... Maybe you can move the enclosure in to the house and see if it changes anything.

Like I said, far fetched.

I have moved him to 2 different areas and he still does it. I wish I could get a video of it. Not only does he grab himself, but sometimes his whole leg almost stretches out, trying to find a branch right in front of him, that his front limbs are already on... I can try to take a picture or video if I see him doing it in front of me. And I'm not sure what you mean by 'special' reptile fake plants, but I will post a pic of his viv and maybe you could see if it is what you're talking about!

 

[Nagyb]

It's the best coverage I can do in his situation, wish I could get a nice big plant in there coming up from the bottom

 

[jajeanpierre]

The wounds are from his backs legs grabbing his front legs in the same exact spot every time. He just keeps trying to get out of his own death grip and his nails are so sharp that they sink into his skin. He never ends up letting himself go. The wounds are really bad because he does this so much every day, near the same spot each time, making the wound bigger and fresher. I have to check on him every 15-20 minutes or so to make sure he is not attached to himself, or else he will just be stuck on the yoga mat all day until I or my boyfriend come to his enclosure to untangle him. When we do untangle his legs, we really make sure to kind of wean his nails out of his skin, instead of just yanking his legs off, which would obviously make him bleed more I will definitely up the mistings for sure, and lower the temps. It's just every time I lower his temps, he always turns dark as if he is cold, until I up his temps back to where they are now. The vet told me to up his temps to make sure if he had any respiratory issues, it would help fix that problem? I believe that is what she had told me. And, as you said it may be the case, the skin around the wound IS actually necrotic. It is dried up and dead, that is why it looks somewhat blackish/brownish around the fresh wound. Will the hydrogen peroxide sting him? He's been through SO much and I just feel awful for him. I feel like he associates me with everything bad happening to him since it's been all within a couple of months. And if I do apply that polysporin, would I leave it as is or should I try my best to cover it up with the homemade bandage I tried to make for him?

Yikes, that is quite the tale of woe--so many vet visits and no resolution....

Am I correct that there are three issues: No appetite, sores that will not heal plus mobility issues?

Your first picture shows all kinds of swellings down the front leg. I wonder if he doesn't have a systemic infection. Why hasn't your vet prescribed an antibiotic? My reptile vets have always gone to a broad spectrum antibiotic when they are stumped by ill health when all other avenues have been explored.

His nails won't damage healthy skin. I can bend the needle on a syringe trying to give an injection--their skin is that tough. When I do a necropsy, it is actually quite difficult for me to start a tiny incision into the skin using really sharp pointy dissection scissors. If his nails are damaging skin, there is something wrong with the skin.

I would really like to see a picture of your cage. Normal chameleons will grab their front legs with their hind feet if they are out in the open. Please send a picture of his cage set up.

I'm not sure about your temps--I'm not a veiled expert--but you want his temps on the high side of normal since he is ill. It seems you are running an automatic mister for too long--60% to 70% of the time is a heck of a lot of water. My chameleons won't eat when my mister is running. I have a species that comes from an area of 400" of rain a year and I only run the misters a total of maybe 10 minutes during this time of year. I ramp it up as the weather gets hotter and the air dryer, but right now, only 10 minutes a day give or take a few. That is nowhere near your 60% of the time. I can't imagine dealing with all that waste water.

His inappetence could be from many reasons, including a systemic infection.

Weekly vet visits for two months suggest your vet doesn't have a good handle on what is wrong and another opinion is in order.

By the way, I have a sickly chameleon that my vet and I call "He Who Would Not Die." HWWND has suffered from ill health since import in December 2014. I adore him. I've spent a fortune on him. We don't know what is wrong, but suspect his biggest issue is that he has abscesses internally. He's been near death many times, in fact a year ago I set up an appointment to euthanize him (something was intermittently blocking his airway and he was collapsing from lack of oxygen) and do a necropsy at the same time. (Both my vet and I are really interested to see what the heck is going on with him internally when he finally does die.) We decided to try one last ditch effort even though the vet did not believe there was a bacterial disease process going on and surprise surprise, he survived and earned his nickname, "He Who Would Not Die." And then he thrived. Thrived to the point I introduced him to a female earlier this year that I hope he bred. Of course, the stress of a breeding situation caused a downturn... He was a the vet's again last week and is on another series of antibiotics. I won't know what is wrong with him until he dies or I euthanize him, and even then I might not know without hundreds of dollars for pathology.

You might never know what is wrong with your chameleon as well. I wish you luck and hope you get him right.

 

[jajeanpierre]

It's the best coverage I can do in his situation, wish I could get a nice big plant in there coming up from the bottom

I just saw these pictures. That is a very chameleon UNFRIENDLY cage. He needs small vines/branches for grabbing. Those big fake vines are impossible for him to wrap his feet around.

There can be all kinds of reasons besides neurological reasons for him to not be able to grip well including pain from gout which is usually caused by kidney failure. Or too high a protein diet. (Carnivore Care for three months?)

You really need a second opinion and you need to take in photos of the cage and an accurate detail of your husbandry.

 

[nightanole]

Bone infection
Possible gout at the joints
We can rule out plant sap irritation, since their is no real plants.

For cleaning the wounds, a 50/50 water/isopropol alcohol would be alot gentler than hydrogen peroxide.

 

[Nagyb]

Yikes, that is quite the tale of woe--so many vet visits and no resolution....

Am I correct that there are three issues: No appetite, sores that will not heal plus mobility issues?

Your first picture shows all kinds of swellings down the front leg. I wonder if he doesn't have a systemic infection. Why hasn't your vet prescribed an antibiotic? My reptile vets have always gone to a broad spectrum antibiotic when they are stumped by ill health when all other avenues have been explored.

His nails won't damage healthy skin. I can bend the needle on a syringe trying to give an injection--their skin is that tough. When I do a necropsy, it is actually quite difficult for me to start a tiny incision into the skin using really sharp pointy dissection scissors. If his nails are damaging skin, there is something wrong with the skin.

I would really like to see a picture of your cage. Normal chameleons will grab their front legs with their hind feet if they are out in the open. Please send a picture of his cage set up.

I'm not sure about your temps--I'm not a veiled expert--but you want his temps on the high side of normal since he is ill. It seems you are running an automatic mister for too long--60% to 70% of the time is a heck of a lot of water. My chameleons won't eat when my mister is running. I have a species that comes from an area of 400" of rain a year and I only run the misters a total of maybe 10 minutes during this time of year. I ramp it up as the weather gets hotter and the air dryer, but right now, only 10 minutes a day give or take a few. That is nowhere near your 60% of the time. I can't imagine dealing with all that waste water.

His inappetence could be from many reasons, including a systemic infection.

Weekly vet visits for two months suggest your vet doesn't have a good handle on what is wrong and another opinion is in order.

By the way, I have a sickly chameleon that my vet and I call "He Who Would Not Die." HWWND has suffered from ill health since import in December 2014. I adore him. I've spent a fortune on him. We don't know what is wrong, but suspect his biggest issue is that he has abscesses internally. He's been near death many times, in fact a year ago I set up an appointment to euthanize him (something was intermittently blocking his airway and he was collapsing from lack of oxygen) and do a necropsy at the same time. (Both my vet and I are really interested to see what the heck is going on with him internally when he finally does die.) We decided to try one last ditch effort even though the vet did not believe there was a bacterial disease process going on and surprise surprise, he survived and earned his nickname, "He Who Would Not Die." And then he thrived. Thrived to the point I introduced him to a female earlier this year that I hope he bred. Of course, the stress of a breeding situation caused a downturn... He was a the vet's again last week and is on another series of antibiotics. I won't know what is wrong with him until he dies or I euthanize him, and even then I might not know without hundreds of dollars for pathology.

You might never know what is wrong with your chameleon as well. I wish you luck and hope you get him right.

Yes, you are right. As of right now, he has mobility issues, sores that will not heal and no appetite... I was running my mister the way my vet had told me. The mistking is very new to me and I was following some of the things I had read on here. That is my fault, I guess I read some wrong info! My vet did not change anything except for making the misting sessions longer each hour in my viv. What misting schedule would you suggest? I would really like to change that immediately. Also, should I just take out most of those vines and get a big plant in there and maybe a couple small ones and see if that helps him at all? One of my problems right now is I live in Michigan. I have checked Lowes and Home Depot, while none of their stores carry any chameleon safe plants in their nursery at this time because of the cold I have also noticed that even with the thinner, green, jungle-like vines in the pictures, he still grabs himself... That is why I intertwined them together to begin with, so he could grab the branches. Before, his back legs couldn't even find the branches so he finally found something to grab onto, that being his front legs and starting his sores.