Gravid dwarf Fischer is in her laying bin and is now mouth wide open?..
- Thread starter Shelbycam
- Start date
Trying to shorten it enough as it was my enclosure cam that took it. She was literally in so much pain from the contractions I had to put her feet on the branch then just used 2 fingers to hold her up properly her head was turned toward her rate and she pushed and it came out she was trying upside down foe 30 min or so will half to look at footage. And you seen the vent spread and stay and her push but nothing then me holding her up in position she was able to push once and it was out.
Do you know how to smallen the size of a ring cam video as I have ring in all my enclosure so I can always make sure they are okay just like my horses and dogs and goats outside.
Chameleoking
Chameleon Enthusiast
No red lights at all should be used. Just not healthy in no way shape or form. And no night lights at all at night period. Someone with little experience knows that much. It definitely will cause eye problems and/or other health problems. Some people are hard headed and will sadly have to learn the hard way. @kinyonga is one of the best out there.
javadi
Chameleon Enthusiast
Just a quick question for you. How have you determined that they "love" this? What signs do you look for that indicate that chameleons love something?
The reason no light is recommended at night is that the parietal eye can sense the rays from the light...pass it on to the pineal organ..."destroy the sleep and biorhythms of the organism, leading to discomfort, exhaustion and even death"...
https://www.chameleons.info/l/parietal-eye-the-mystery-of-the-third-eye/
You might like to read this too...Frances Baines has studied light for reptiles for a long time now...as has Andy Beveridge...
"Reptiles rely upon a distinct day and night to set their circadian rhythms. Day must be light; night must be dark"...
https://reptilesmagazine.com/reptile-lighting-information/
https://www.chameleons.info/l/parietal-eye-the-mystery-of-the-third-eye/
You might like to read this too...Frances Baines has studied light for reptiles for a long time now...as has Andy Beveridge...
"Reptiles rely upon a distinct day and night to set their circadian rhythms. Day must be light; night must be dark"...
https://reptilesmagazine.com/reptile-lighting-information/
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Sadly I half to say I go of my experience not Google. I give what is needed when needed. As a over 30 yr experienced individual I would know. And working in a vet office for 24 yrs I can say don't trust Google but hay every opinion counts in the world of animals. Thank you for your input.
It is not seen at night as it is hung from the roof they have their own room it is just to keep Temps extra in correct conditions for them it is not directly on them I have never ever had a problem with it but due to our area it is needed to stabilize their room at night she only had it in her lay bin due to her resistance to the day light. It is only turned on at night and is pretty much pitch dark were I can't even see. I have learned this through out the yrs being a vet and also an all animal rescue. It Definitely should never be directly on top of them but it is suitable for a room stabilizer.
They change to happy colors and not timed when they do not get what they want they get stressed and show buy not only color's but aditued. If you have true experience with 24 7 care of your animal you will know them in and out and I'm not talking about getting them because they look cool or you just wanted to breed or just wanted something to look at they should be treated as your children not just an excessery.
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javadi
Chameleon Enthusiast
I see. Thank you for your response. I didn't know chameleons got audited. Best of luck with the eggs, I hope they do well for you!
And so you know it is no offense to you at all for your question. But they are all naturally wild for anyone reading if you were a cham would you like it if you were kept in a cage inside all day or have a 10x20 outside enclosure that is filled with live plants and insects as if you were free but yet safe I'm guessing the second one. I'm a human and I don't want to be in prison my whole life I like the sun and necessity of life. Again just responding for everyone not saying your question was wrong it was a good question as many don't see them as more than a trophy they keep in a case.
They definitely do if you are close enough to them you will see it lol sorry for miss spell new phone. not kidding tho just like a human. They show a lot through color and adituted they will have different effects on different situations. As they can not speak to us they can hiss but that is as much as you are getting verbally.
Mendez
Chameleon Enthusiast
As flawed as your chameleon keeping is, your thought process is worse.
What is the point of coming on here if you are not going to listen to those like @kinyonga or @javadi? They have been keeping chameleons for a very long time and have dedicated even more time to learning everything about them. Here YOU are, a person with thirty years of experience and 24 years of vet experience, asking a question because YOU are having problems. But yet you dismiss valid points from experienced keepers? That makes no sense. If you are so experienced, why did you even come on here to ask a question? If it doesn't fit your biased criteria, you immediately dismiss it. Now if someone said to get a purple heat light instead of a red one, you might consider it. But if someone gives you 21st-century knowledge, the words enter one ear and exit the other.
I don't want to sleep on a branch, nor get misted by a spray bottle, nor eat insects. Do I buy a miniature bed from IKEA? Do I give this bed a little umbrella holder? Do I substitute the crickets for pasta? No, of course not, that would be ridiculous. We have very different biological needs than chameleons. And just because we want to feel nice and warm at night, snuggled under a cozy blanket, doesn't mean that our chameleons want artificial heat. And let's say that your chameleon does get cold at night, there are far better ways at providing heat than using red heat lights. Boehmei is a montane species of chameleon. If the temps get well below the fifties at night, then you might consider heating them up. But leave LIGHT out of the equation. Ceramic heat emitters provide heat and no light. Your chameleon needs darkness to sleep. The parietal eye can detect this red light and disrupt sleep. Just because you may want a nightlight on in your room when you sleep, it doesn't mean that your chameleon wants a nightlight as well.
You are currently keeping chameleons the same way that people did thirty years ago. So when you say that you have thirty years of experience, I am not surprised. I've been alive 23 years. You would think in all that time I have perfected the art of living like a normal human being, but no, I'm still figuring out my life. Doing something for a long time doesn't mean you are any good at it. You can get wiser with age or you can plateau after the first year and stay the same for the remaining 29 years. I urge you to keep learning. Quantity of experience does not equate to quality of experience.
What is the point of coming on here if you are not going to listen to those like @kinyonga or @javadi? They have been keeping chameleons for a very long time and have dedicated even more time to learning everything about them. Here YOU are, a person with thirty years of experience and 24 years of vet experience, asking a question because YOU are having problems. But yet you dismiss valid points from experienced keepers? That makes no sense. If you are so experienced, why did you even come on here to ask a question? If it doesn't fit your biased criteria, you immediately dismiss it. Now if someone said to get a purple heat light instead of a red one, you might consider it. But if someone gives you 21st-century knowledge, the words enter one ear and exit the other.
What do happy colors look like to you? Too many people confuse bright, vibrant colors with being happy; this is not the case. A happy chameleon should be relaxed and a little dull in color. Being in a state of excitement is very different from being in a state of happiness.
This is a very dangerous line of thought. You should not be deciding what your chameleon finds preferable based on your own likes and dislikes. There are certainly scenarios where a cage indoors would be better than a larger, more spacious enclosure outside. Chameleons are will animals, yes, but they are also wild animals that find themselves pretty low on the food chain. We, humans, enjoy the outdoors because we do not fear getting predated on by animals higher up on the food chain. I do agree that the Sun is far superior to artificial uvb, but a well-planted terrarium indoors, with proper lighting, can make for a very happy chameleon. Reptiles want to feel safe and secure. If you can provide this indoors better than you can outdoors, indoors is definitely the way to go.
I don't want to sleep on a branch, nor get misted by a spray bottle, nor eat insects. Do I buy a miniature bed from IKEA? Do I give this bed a little umbrella holder? Do I substitute the crickets for pasta? No, of course not, that would be ridiculous. We have very different biological needs than chameleons. And just because we want to feel nice and warm at night, snuggled under a cozy blanket, doesn't mean that our chameleons want artificial heat. And let's say that your chameleon does get cold at night, there are far better ways at providing heat than using red heat lights. Boehmei is a montane species of chameleon. If the temps get well below the fifties at night, then you might consider heating them up. But leave LIGHT out of the equation. Ceramic heat emitters provide heat and no light. Your chameleon needs darkness to sleep. The parietal eye can detect this red light and disrupt sleep. Just because you may want a nightlight on in your room when you sleep, it doesn't mean that your chameleon wants a nightlight as well.
I agree that these animals are not accessories. But they also aren't children. Sure, you should spend every expense. But you shouldn't personify these animals. Additionally, going back to the child analogy, I am going to keep up-to-date on the lastest research on how to best care for a child. Care changes over time. I would rather learn from others when possible rather than make mistakes last committed in 1000 BC when it comes to caring for living beings. I would hate to be responsible for causing rickets in a child just because I can't trust the internet. The internet is not supposed to be trusted. People who rely on the internet make absolutely certain that the source can be trusted. If you would like trusted sources, let me know. The internet is a tool, it's up to you how you use it.
I'm not trying to put you down, but you need to realize that some of the greatest accomplishments came about through trial and error. Shunning out the internet is the biggest disservice you can do to yourself. Is there more bad info out there vs good info? Absolutely. But you also have to learn to sift through the bad to get to the good info. If you are not learning through the mistakes of others, you are truly stuck in the past. You may go through the entirety of your life making progress, but that progress will never amount to the progress made by those who communicated with and learned from others' mistakes. And if you are living in the past, your chams are not getting the very best care out there.
No they don't. If you absolutely need to provide heat, though I doubt it, provide the heat with something that does not produce light.
If you need the heat at night where you live a healthier alternative to the red bulbs are ceramic heat emitters. They don't produce light that affects sleep patterns and also last much longer than the bulbs. They come in a variety of strengths.
Congrats on your eggs. Do let us know how they fair.
Congrats on your eggs. Do let us know how they fair.
Totally agree with Mendez and others on this. To add sometimes us older people don't conform, as the hobby does, but we are here to learn, right?
Welcome! even though you have been a member since 2017 and have had chameleons since 1990's
30 years is a long time, and you must have seen, so many changes with the care of Chameleons.
Just have a few questions, since I am always TO curious. And in my opinion it is an odd story but interesting.
Being blunt comes with age too, but also liked Mendez's forward honesty too--- Joking when I say this : There is hope for the younger generations. Yep! To much coffee this AM
1. What location are you in- If you don't mind, so others might be able to give you some tips on what they do in that climate.
2. What online vender did you get her from. There have been an up in WC chameleons that have been shipped recently and it is possible your chameleon was gravid when shipped. Meaning the eggs are probably fertile.
3. She definitely looked gravid from the first picture, so wonder why she was not placed in a lay bin (with proper substrate depth) since you have 30
years of chameleon experience. both with live and egg layers. See, being a little blunt.
Don't get me wrong-- my intentions are to gather as much information as possible, to help along with others here, for you to have a great experience even if you have been doing it for 30 years, we can always learn more.
There are so many new things over 30 years and some of the members here helping are up to speed with everything. I too have been doing it for the same amount of time and continue to learn from members here.
JMHO there are so many different levels of learning from beginner to scientists here in the forum and if your answers can't be answered, others will hook ya up with great links.
Did your vet check for parasites? If not, she probably has them and can affect her health in the near future.
Also, your experience with helping give birth is odd (I have assisted my critters in weird ways, so it would not surprise me as to how we try all different things to help) . I understand you have video but need to make the file smaller. Please take a few still shots with your camera (maybe 3 or 4) and share via picture (if that is easier). Also, since you have already had multiple chameleons, can you share a current picture of both eggs in hatching container and chameleons 10' x 30'? Thanks!
So excited to see the pics. Thanks!
I am a visual learner so the more pics of your stuff the better. We love all kinds of animals.
Welcome! even though you have been a member since 2017 and have had chameleons since 1990's
30 years is a long time, and you must have seen, so many changes with the care of Chameleons.
Just have a few questions, since I am always TO curious. And in my opinion it is an odd story but interesting.
Being blunt comes with age too, but also liked Mendez's forward honesty too--- Joking when I say this : There is hope for the younger generations. Yep! To much coffee this AM1. What location are you in- If you don't mind, so others might be able to give you some tips on what they do in that climate.
2. What online vender did you get her from. There have been an up in WC chameleons that have been shipped recently and it is possible your chameleon was gravid when shipped. Meaning the eggs are probably fertile.
3. She definitely looked gravid from the first picture, so wonder why she was not placed in a lay bin (with proper substrate depth) since you have 30
years of chameleon experience. both with live and egg layers. See, being a little blunt.
Don't get me wrong-- my intentions are to gather as much information as possible, to help along with others here, for you to have a great experience even if you have been doing it for 30 years, we can always learn more.
There are so many new things over 30 years and some of the members here helping are up to speed with everything. I too have been doing it for the same amount of time and continue to learn from members here.
JMHO there are so many different levels of learning from beginner to scientists here in the forum and if your answers can't be answered, others will hook ya up with great links.
Did your vet check for parasites? If not, she probably has them and can affect her health in the near future.
Also, your experience with helping give birth is odd (I have assisted my critters in weird ways, so it would not surprise me as to how we try all different things to help)
. I understand you have video but need to make the file smaller. Please take a few still shots with your camera (maybe 3 or 4) and share via picture (if that is easier). Also, since you have already had multiple chameleons, can you share a current picture of both eggs in hatching container and chameleons 10' x 30'? Thanks! So excited to see the pics. Thanks!
I am a visual learner so the more pics of your stuff the better. We love all kinds of animals.
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You said..."I have learned this through out the yrs being a vet and also an all animal rescue" and "And working in a vet office for 24 yrs I can say don't trust Google but hay every opinion counts in the world of animals".... so you're a vet or you work in a vet's office??
Troubledluna80
Established Member
I saw a lot of people ask about light etc so I won’t reiterate that but what I am wondering is how you know they “ they will get depressed and stressed if they do not get to come out and ride on my head extra daily some evn come to the store with me the chillon dash then on the buggy as I shop they love it not shy or scared at all?” Even with the rare occasions that the chameleon are “friendly” this would stress any chameleon completely out. Also are you handling them like these at night when their lights are out. Also I thought I saw something about you raising veiled eggs. Are you breeding veils too? The other question I have is you said “I would never let a baby go younger then 48hrs” does that mean you sell babies at 48hours. Also promise last question you said your chameleon’s are your children MULTIPLE times does that mean you also have your kids breed for profit and keep them outside?
BostonKeith
Avid Member
Kinda wondering what happened with that red light still! :/
