Gravid?/ pregnant?

[KDaters]

Best

Thank you ! I really hope i can prove a lot of people wrong i will definitely be reading everything everyone shared.

Best thing you can do right now is learn as much as you can as quickly as you can. Check out the Chameleon Breeders Podcast with Bill Strand and binge listen. Evaluate your enclosure and it’s set up. Keep tweeking things as you learn and you’ll get there. When you think you’ve got it figured out... You don’t haha keep learning.

 

[Kahmeleonaire]

Thanks ! Will do i definitely appreciate it

 

[The Wild One]

What made you want to capture both of them in the first place? To me, if they were in the wild in the beginning, I'd leave them there because they probably have adapted enough to survive. And even if they were an invasive species people are working to re-locate them to similar environments. I'm not trying to go off on you, but I don't see how this was a good idea from the start. If you wanted a chameleon, get one from a breeder so the cham is used to being around people and it would have less stress from moving habitats. Again I'm not trying to attack you, I just want what is or was, best for the cham.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

@Kahmeleonaire -Allow me to clarify some of the more hostile post you’ve received, mine included.

I don’t sugarcoat anything, I do this for clarity. Please don’t mistake my bluntness with malice.

This community is probably the most passionate group of keepers you will find. We are all volunteers, no pay. We go through dozens of posts every week, nearly hundreds and have saved innumerable chams from bad husbandry. Many of us spend hours a day here with no expectation of getting something in return. Like I said, passionate.

We see everything here, both success stories and horror stories. The member you spoke to last was one of our more recent successful turnarounds. We also see a lot of post from people who go out to Florida with the intention of catching and selling chams and their eggs for a quick buck. Then they think they can come here pretending to be a true keeper in order to tap our knowledge to learn just enough to keep these very difficult to care for animals alive just long enough to sell them.

Every one of those threads start off EXACTLY like yours did. You just joined this community and instantly started firing off all the usual questions and even posted the biggest indicator of lack of Cham knowledge there is: a pic of you holding a cham in a closed hand.

I will not apologize for assuming that’s exactly what you and XRay man we’re doing. But I will say I assumed it and could be wrong. You will receive absolutely no support from this community if we find out your not being straight with us.

Now onto your two chams. Yes, people do catch and sell WC chams, not as pets but to add fresh genetics to the captive breeding DNA pool. Both male and female WC chams do VERY POORLY in captivity, especially gravid WC females. It’s simply too much culture shock for them to bare. They stress to the point that they go into stress overload and completely shutdown. They won’t eat or drink leading to them being so weak they can not lay their clutch, go egg bound and die slowly over weeks of agony. Same for the males minus the egg bound issues.

Your handing that female a death sentence if you keep her, period. I implore you to at least release her if not both. If you want to learn to keep chams start with a single male, preferably CB. Once you’ve got it down then we can talk females, they are much more difficult to keep than males.

I am not the leader of this community, I’m a member just like you. But I have no doubt 99% of my fellow members will back up everything I’ve laid out above.

So, exactly what is your intent here?

 

[Kahmeleonaire]

@Kahmeleonaire -Allow me to clarify some of the more hostile post you’ve received, mine included.

I don’t sugarcoat anything, I do this for clarity. Please don’t mistake my bluntness with malice.

This community is probably the most passionate group of keepers you will find. We are all volunteers, no pay. We go through dozens of posts every week, nearly hundreds and have saved innumerable chams from bad husbandry. Many of us spend hours a day here with no expectation of getting something in return. Like I said, passionate.

We see everything here, both success stories and horror stories. The member you spoke to last was one of our more recent successful turnarounds. We also see a lot of post from people who go out to Florida with the intention of catching and selling chams and their eggs for a quick buck. Then they think they can come here pretending to be a true keeper in order to tap our knowledge to learn just enough to keep these very difficult to care for animals alive just long enough to sell them.

Every one of those threads start off EXACTLY like yours did. You just joined this community and instantly started firing off all the usual questions and even posted the biggest indicator of lack of Cham knowledge there is: a pic of you holding a cham in a closed hand.

I will not apologize for assuming that’s exactly what you and XRay man we’re doing. But I will say I assumed it and could be wrong. You will receive absolutely no support from this community if we find out your not being strai

If my intentions were to just sell them I would not have spent hundreds of dollars on building a cage and providing lights and food for them I will just sell them right then and there because I do know that there is a market for them and that people go crazy for buying them obviously that’s not my intentions because I would not be here to ask you guys how to sell them let alone how to have a female lay eggs if i can get that information on youtube I came here in search of better opinions on how I should go about helping the female lay eggs because she does look pregnant I honestly could care less what anyone thinks
I am not doing this for money because that would just be dumb if I could go out and catch 15 in one night. And have them sold the very next day I don’t care about money I wanted Chameleon’s as a pet and I have grown fascinated with them I guess you all have a degree in husbandry and can predict every outcome who’s the say I can’t turn these wild chameleons around when you are not even here to see their behavior and the care that i am trying to provide for them
There are if not thousands of them in the wild what makes it so bad that I took two home Of course I would feel some type away about a female being egg bound I would have felt responsible for that but if there is a chance that I can somehow help her and tame her and the male then I am willing to do that I am willing to go through trial and error it’s not like I have a death wish for them I have every pure intention when I first thought about keeping two Chameleons I can understand everyone’s concerns for these two animals and I can appreciate it but just because people tell me to release it I’m just supposed to listen to that and disregard everything I have done so far to keep them happy and to provide for them that’s bogus in my opinion is it a crime to keep two wild chameleons out of thousands of them I appreciate everyone’s response on what I’m doing wrong what I should do with them But I have no intentions on releasing them And if people don’t agree with that they can either stop commenting on my post or provide helpful information on how to care for them And I don’t know about your state but here in Florida invasive species get killed and that is not against the law that is not what I want for these to Chameleon’s I want them to thrive and live out there full life but I would also love to see them happy with me and in their environment that I have built for them and will continue to make better for them like I said before if anyone has a problem with what I’m doing they can have admin remove me if I’m such a problem

 

[Kahmeleonaire]

If my intentions were to just sell them I would not have spent hundreds of dollars on building a cage and providing lights and food for them I will just sell them right then and there because I do know that there is a market for them and that people go crazy for buying them obviously that’s not my intentions because I would not be here to ask you guys how to sell them let alone how to have a female lay eggs if i can get that information on youtube I came here in search of better opinions on how I should go about helping the female lay eggs because she does look pregnant I honestly could care less what anyone thinks
I am not doing this for money because that would just be dumb if I could go out and catch 15 in one night. And have them sold the very next day I don’t care about money I wanted Chameleon’s as a pet and I have grown fascinated with them I guess you all have a degree in husbandry and can predict every outcome who’s the say I can’t turn these wild chameleons around when you are not even here to see their behavior and the care that i am trying to provide for them
There are if not thousands of them in the wild what makes it so bad that I took two home Of course I would feel some type away about a female being egg bound I would have felt responsible for that but if there is a chance that I can somehow help her and tame her and the male then I am willing to do that I am willing to go through trial and error it’s not like I have a death wish for them I have every pure intention when I first thought about keeping two Chameleons I can understand everyone’s concerns for these two animals and I can appreciate it but just because people tell me to release it I’m just supposed to listen to that and disregard everything I have done so far to keep them happy and to provide for them that’s bogus in my opinion is it a crime to keep two wild chameleons out of thousands of them I appreciate everyone’s response on what I’m doing wrong what I should do with them But I have no intentions on releasing them And if people don’t agree with that they can either stop commenting on my post or provide helpful information on how to care for them And I don’t know about your state but here in Florida invasive species get killed and that is not against the law that is not what I want for these to Chameleon’s I want them to thrive and live out there full life but I would also love to see them happy with me and in their environment that I have built for them and will continue to make better for them like I said before if anyone has a problem with what I’m doing they can have admin remove me if I’m such a problem

And like I already mention I have never met this guy who has the x-ray machine He does not live close by nor do I even know him but I do know that he is knowledgeable with Chameleon’s because his whole home is set up as a sanctuary for them He goes to events for reptiles and all sorts I don’t know him personally but yes You all can keep assuming it doesn’t bother me at all

 

[AnamCara]

If my intentions were to just sell them I would not have spent hundreds of dollars on building a cage and providing lights and food for them I will just sell them right then and there because I do know that there is a market for them and that people go crazy for buying them obviously that’s not my intentions because I would not be here to ask you guys how to sell them let alone how to have a female lay eggs if i can get that information on youtube I came here in search of better opinions on how I should go about helping the female lay eggs because she does look pregnant I honestly could care less what anyone thinks
I am not doing this for money because that would just be dumb if I could go out and catch 15 in one night. And have them sold the very next day I don’t care about money I wanted Chameleon’s as a pet and I have grown fascinated with them I guess you all have a degree in husbandry and can predict every outcome who’s the say I can’t turn these wild chameleons around when you are not even here to see their behavior and the care that i am trying to provide for them
There are if not thousands of them in the wild what makes it so bad that I took two home Of course I would feel some type away about a female being egg bound I would have felt responsible for that but if there is a chance that I can somehow help her and tame her and the male then I am willing to do that I am willing to go through trial and error it’s not like I have a death wish for them I have every pure intention when I first thought about keeping two Chameleons I can understand everyone’s concerns for these two animals and I can appreciate it but just because people tell me to release it I’m just supposed to listen to that and disregard everything I have done so far to keep them happy and to provide for them that’s bogus in my opinion is it a crime to keep two wild chameleons out of thousands of them I appreciate everyone’s response on what I’m doing wrong what I should do with them But I have no intentions on releasing them And if people don’t agree with that they can either stop commenting on my post or provide helpful information on how to care for them And I don’t know about your state but here in Florida invasive species get killed and that is not against the law that is not what I want for these to Chameleon’s I want them to thrive and live out there full life but I would also love to see them happy with me and in their environment that I have built for them and will continue to make better for them like I said before if anyone has a problem with what I’m doing they can have admin remove me if I’m such a problem

This forum is the collective knowledge of A LOT of people. I think the frustration is the push back to very reasonable suggestions.

"I can somehow help her and tame her" <--- I promise you -- you will not "tame" them. The BEST you will get is that they MAY SORT OF KIND OF trust you. But with wild-caught chameleons that is going to be very, very hard.

You're female likely will not make it through this. The stress alone to them at this time is putting them at a real health rise. I understand you want to do the best for them and keep them -- but as brody said the stress of switching from wild living to captive living is going to severely decrease their health. I am not saying to euthanize them -- but if your reasoning for keeping them is that they might be killed off for being invasive, all Ic an say is a quick death is better than a slow one every single time.

Many people come here and are frustrated with the information they receive because it is different than their research or their gut feeling. Cognitive dissonance should not stop you from taking the advice of experienced keepers.

We can only make inferences based off the information provided. If you chose to take it or not that is up to you. If you are unhappy with the information provided then by all means, do what you think is best.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

Loose the snowflake attitude. I said if your trying to keep them, not flip them, then we’d help you. So we will. We’ve established your intentions, let’s move on to correcting your husbandry.

You need more help than I realized of you spent hundreds on that viv! Just messing with ya! Can you take pics of your UVB source and the supplements your using. We need pics of the individual vivs. Need bottom, middle, and top.

I guess you all have a degree in husbandry and can predict every outcome

Yes, actually.

you are not even here to see their behavior and the care that i am trying to provide for them

You’ve shown us everything we needed to see in the few pics you’ve already posted to know you need a lot of help.Which your about to get.

I am willing to go through trial and error it’s not like I have a death wish for them

That’s what you don’t get! There is no trial and error with chams, you inexperience is showing. Again there is no trial and error here, only error and death. You’ve got to get everything right on the first round with WC chams. Zero room for error. I get you don’t want to kill them but if you make mistakes with WCs that’s what’s going to happen.

But I have no intentions on releasing them

Ok, can’t force you to.

I don’t know about your state but here in Florida invasive species get killed and that is not against the law

Again, we’ll aware of your laws and what’s going on down there, it’s actually illegal to release them alive once captured.

I want them to thrive

Good, post those details pics we asked for.

 

[The Wild One]

I have never met this guy who has the x-ray machine He does not live close by nor do I even know him but I do know that he is knowledgeable with Chameleon’s because his whole home is set up as a sanctuary for them He goes to events for reptiles and all sorts I don’t know him personally but yes You all can keep assuming it doesn’t bother me at all

These dots do not connect in my head, why did you trust a person you've never met before? I get it was through a friend, but your friend said she couldn't take care of the chams in the first place, as Brody said, there is no room for errors with these amazing creatures.

 

[The Wild One]

These dots do not connect in my head, why did you trust a person you've never met before? I get it was through a friend, but your friend said she couldn't take care of the chams in the first place, as Brody said, there is no room for errors with these amazing creatures.

Not attacking you or your friend, I dont want your cham to have an unfortunate turn-out

 

[Kahmeleonaire]

Loose the snowflake attitude. I said if your trying to keep them, not flip them, then we’d help you. So we will. We’ve established your intentions, let’s move on to correcting your husbandry.

You need more help than I realized of you spent hundreds on that viv! Just messing with ya! Can you take pics of your UVB source and the supplements your using. We need pics of the individual vivs. Need bottom, middle, and top.


Yes, actually.


You’ve shown us everything we needed to see in the few pics you’ve already posted to know you need a lot of help.Which your about to get.


That’s what you don’t get! There is no trial and error with chams, you inexperience is showing. Again there is no trial and error here, only error and death. You’ve got to get everything right on the first round with WC chams. Zero room for error. I get you don’t want to kill them but if you make mistakes with WCs that’s what’s going to happen.


Ok, can’t force you to.


Again, we’ll aware of your laws and what’s going on down there, it’s actually illegal to release them alive once captured.


Good, post those details pics we asked for.

Will do and I appreciate your efforts to help , i will also be constructing a better cage for them this weekend perhaps in a better area like in the back yard instead of my carport . I will upload photos when I return home thanks everyone.

 

[The Wild One]

These dots do not connect in my head, why did you trust a person you've never met before? I get it was through a friend, but your friend said she couldn't take care of the chams in the first place, as Brody said, there is no room for errors with these amazing creatures.

wrong thread sorry

 

[Brodybreaux25]

wrong thread sorry

Lol, I was wondering!

 

[Brodybreaux25]

Will do and I appreciate your efforts to help , i will also be constructing a better cage for them this weekend perhaps in a better area like in the back yard instead of my carport . I will upload photos when I return home thanks everyone.

Cool, but let’s do your husbandry first so you don’t waste any money on the wrong equipment!

My latest build:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/bioactive-mentor.167174/

 

[Kahmeleonaire]

Im in the Process of creating a more natural cage for them made of PVC and mesh so that they can get more sunlight and rain and placed somewhere shady in my backyard I took the female out side of her cage using a branch to get her to climb on me then leaving her for an hour secluded So that. She may dig in peace after the hour I then placed her back into her cage with a way of her exiting and entering ass she pleases the laying bin consist of moist soil and partially organic top soil I witnessed the male And female eat about three crickets each I left about six in each cage to roam around I have been misting the plants as well

 

[Kahmeleonaire]

Also putting in more plants today i took the dead ones out

 

[Kahmeleonaire]

Really cant tell if there fertile i see lines in them up to a flashlight tho i have no incubator i was not planning on her laying eggs any tips for the mean time?

 

[JoXie411]

You can’t candle chameleon eggs right away you won’t see anything

 

[Kahmeleonaire]

You can’t candle chameleon eggs right away you won’t see anything

Thank you