Gravid veiled (I think) doesn't want to lay eggs.

[Djborx]

Hello there! My female veiled has been showing all the gravid symptoms for the last 3 days, restless, spending lot of time in the bottom of the cage and barely stopped eating. She is also very fat. I should point out that she is a "virgin" and therefore the eggs won't be fertile.
She has two laying bins, 16x12x9 each with moist soil and although she does spend time down there, she is basically exploring rather than digging. She keeps walking on them, going up and down, left and right but she doesn't dig at all. I have made some holes myself to see if that motivates her but nothing, she won't dig.
As a last resort, I built an external laying bin yesterday with even bigger measurements but she just wanted to get out immediately, she didn't even look around, she was clearly uncomfortable wanted to get out as soon as possible.
I have covered the whole cage to give her privacy and I have also installed a webcam, so I can monitor her.
This is the first time she is gravid and it's my first time dealing with it also. Hope that you experienced people can help out.
Am I jumping the gun too quickly here? Do they take longer time to lay the eggs? It's been 3 days since she started showing symptoms but I don't know how long it should take before she lays eggs. I've read so much stuff about egg binding that I'm quite worried to be honest. She looks healthy and her colours are fine but I don't know why she won't lay... Unless she is not gravid and she is just acting weird, but I doubt it.
I have included some pics of her, the cage and the laying bins. That towel on the left side of the cage is for privacy only, it will be removed as soon as she is done.
Thanks!

 

[Djborx]

Don't know why the attached pics have rotated, sorry about that.... I have embedded the pics into the post now.

 

[Djborx]

Too bad nobody has been able to help. I'll see if I can figure this out by myself then.

 

[Kath44]

She looks quite plump. And very pretty.
I've no experience with females but what I've read here it could still be early days. Give her some space, as you have been doing. Maybe try a deeper laybin.
Kath.

 

[Djborx]

Thanks Kath. I have tried a deeper bin but she is having none of it. For now she keeps running around the bottom of the cage pretending to dig.
Hope you are right and it's just early days. Fingers crossed!

 

[jannb]

Hopefully she is just not ready. I have one with eggs right and and these little girls can really worry you. I had my girl x-rayed two weeks ago to make sure it was eggs. At the first sign of acting sick such as no longer active, get her to the vet If you get her to the vet in time a vet can give oxytocin to induce egg laying before she becomes egg bound. Several injections of oxytocin over several days might be needed. If she still doesn’t lay the eggs surgery is the only other alternative. Surgery is very risky but at this point it’s the only choice. If your female is healthy and your husbandry is right she shouldn't become egg-bound unless she has a reproductive system deformity, deformed eggs, etc.

 

[Djborx]

Thanks for the feedback jaanb! This is our first time for both, the chameleon and myself dealing with eggs and after reading all the horrible things that can happen I'm so worried! I am keeping an eye day and night, the webcam I've installed is very handy to see what's going on at all times. Not sure if I'm being a bit paranoid, but I want to make sure everything goes well.
So what I should keep an eye on is if she is no longer active? What about eating? All of a sudden she doesn't want locusts anymore and she always loved them, she will only eat a couple of mealworms. Is that normal when they are gravid?

 

[jannb]

No eating can be a sign they are ready to lay or that they are sick. I've had girls stop eating a day or two before laying and I've also had them eat the day of laying. The only way to know for sure that she has eggs is an x-ray. Your girl does look plump in the pictures and could very well have eggs. Messing around the bottom of the cage is also a sign that she may have eggs. The very best to you and your girl.

This is the first time for my baby to lay and her clutch is infertile. She is only 6 months old so I am really worried.

 

[Djborx]

Thanks again! Good luck with your baby! Hope all goes well.

 

[Ethan00]

Hey!
My female veiled is refusing to lay too! She's about the same size as yours, wont eat that much besides an odd worm, and is covered in orange spots with a view blue bits on her back.
My veiled's been, or showing the symtoms of being gravid, for about 2 weeks!
Slouching down more, spends most time at bottom of cage, off eating..
However mine started to dig at the bottom of her cage, which she wouldnt succeed at since its wood chippings, so I put her in a laying bucket 2 days ago, and she hasnt used it (dug) whatsoever, she just sat there.
In result of this I took her back out of the bucket and back to her cage. Where she is sleeping now.
So I dont no, it seems like we're both in the kinda same situation with our veiled's, however mines going to the pet shop tommorow, since im going away for a few days, so im hoping they will know whats up and what to do!
You should get yours to either the vet (as said by jannb) or wherever you got yours from.
Also if she does eat, try calcium dusting food (if not already) since all her calcium and energy will be going into the eggs if she is actually pregnant.
Anyway, all the best, hope your chameleon will be ok!
Ethan

 

[Djborx]

Thanks buddy! It seems we are both in a similar situation indeed, but yours has been showing symptoms for two weeks? That's quite a lot, I hope mine is done much before that. Aren't you afraid she might become egg bound after all this time?
I've tried another laying bin today but she just sits there also not doing anything, however, she is very active in her cage and she "pretends" to dig.
Good luck with your chameleon, hope all is sorted by the time you get back.

 

[kinyonga]

Djborx...you could try changing the world for washed play sand that you moisten enough to hold a tunnel. Is the soil moist enough to hold a tunnel? How deep is it?

Ethan00...i would suggest you take out the wood chips. If ingested they can lead to an impaction. Does she ever get an almost black background color?

Can both of you answer the questions in the how to ask for help thread at the top of the health forum.

 

[ThePantherBaron]

Get a 33 gallon trash can. Use 2/3rd top soil with 1/3rd play sand. Fill trash can halfway up. Mix sand and soil and add water till you can form a tunnel and then just a little more water. Place her in the trash bin with lid off and provide a heat source like a 75 watt bulb clamped to the top of the trash can. She will definitely lay in this as this gives her alot of security because of the 8 to 16 inches of black wall surrounding her.

 

[Djborx]

Get a 33 gallon trash can. Use 2/3rd top soil with 1/3rd play sand. Fill trash can halfway up. Mix sand and soil and add water till you can form a tunnel and then just a little more water. Place her in the trash bin with lid off and provide a heat source like a 75 watt bulb clamped to the top of the trash can. She will definitely lay in this as this gives her alot of security because of the 8 to 16 inches of black wall surrounding her.

I will try today, I have already put her in that kind of rubbish bin but with soil, she didn't quite like it. I will try adding sand. Thanks for the advice!

Djborx...you could try changing the world for washed play sand that you moisten enough to hold a tunnel. Is the soil moist enough to hold a tunnel? How deep is it?

I'm going to buy some sand today, see if that helps. The reason I used soil is because that's what the shop where I bought her from uses, they even showed me their gravid female digging away in the soil, she was not shy at all.
Mine might be more picky however. The laying bins are 9 inches deep but I also have a large rubbish bin which I can use as adviced by TheChameleonBaron, hope the sand works. Thanks for helping out!

 

[Djborx]

Nothing, she is very restless in the laying bin and just wants to climb out, she doesn't care much about the sand. I'm taking her to the vet.

 

[jannb]

Nothing, she is very restless in the laying bin and just wants to climb out, she doesn't care much about the sand. I'm taking her to the vet.

I use a big deep trash can with moist sand. I put my girls in and totally leave her alone for a couple hours in the afternoon. When the are ready they get to work. I've noticed they normally start digging in the late afternoon. You can see my laying bin in the link below.

The vet for an x-ray might e a good idea.

Laying bin:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/camilles-eggs-43-them-they-fertile-28568/
My egg laying blog: https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/jannb/345-egg-laying-laying-bin.html

 

[Djborx]

Thanks jannb, that's very helpful! Do they also try to get out all the time from their laying bin? Do they look very stressed in the container at first?
Mine has been there for 2 hours and the only thing she's done is try to climb out, obviously the walls are too high and she can't, but she is not giving up. She looks so stressed, I think she is going to start hating me. She hasn't tried the slightest to get familiar with the environment or dig some test holes.
I have the vet appointment in 45 minutes so hopefully we'll be able to figure out what's going on.

 

[Djborx]

Back from the vet. She indeed has eggs and many of them. We have given her a shot of calcium and of oxytocin. Hopefully she will lay the eggs now.
The vet says that if she doesn't lay the eggs for tomorrow we should consider surgery...
Has anyone gone through this kind of surgery? Also, what happens when she is ready to lay eggs again, will she need surgery each time? The vet wasn't sure. Maybe I should open another thread for this... So sad.

 

[jannb]

Usually it takes several injections of the oxytocin over several days before it works. Surgery is very risky and from my experience and from what I read on here most make it through the surgery but have complications afterwards. My parsonii girl made it for two weeks. I do know of one or two people on here that they did have complications afterward but their girls lived another year or so. One had to have a second surgery for impaction. If you go this route make sure you have a very experienced reptile vet with experience with this surgery on chameleons.

 

[Djborx]

I see, somehow the vet told me that he didn't want to give him too many shots of oxytocin, as it was not good.
To be honest I'm not very convinced on the surgery approach, especially now after reading your comments.
The chameleon is still very active and today she ate 3 worms, so it might not be too late still...