Great week! Panther and quad eggs!

[pamnsam94]

On Monday, my WC Ambilobe female panther laid 26 eggs. I finally took the plunge and bought a WC pair early in March. They bred just once though, on March 12th. Right after mating, she took on the gravid coloration. She wouldn't breed again. Being new to panthers, that kind of surprised me because I expected multiple breedings. However, I read a post where a keeper experienced that his virgin females would breed multiple times, but his other females would only mate once. If the eggs she laid were fathered by the WC male, the gestation period was just 18 days. What's the shortest gestation period than any of you panther breeders have experienced?

To top off a great week, just yesterday, Friday 4/3, my female quad from the December import laid 12 eggs after more than a 90 gestation period. Some keepers report a normal gestation of about 60 days. She gained 35 grams and weighed 79 grams the last time I weighed her, about a week ago. When I got her on 12/23/14, she weighed just 44 grams. I'm so relieved that she finally laid. I'll admit that I was actually starting to doubt my observation skills, even though I could have sworn on multiple occasions that I was seeing an egg outline or two. I'm guessing that her longer than "normal" gestation might have been due to the importation process and to her being held in Equatorial Guinea for who knows how long. All the eggs look good and well calcified and I had given the mother some preformed vitamin A while she was developing the eggs, so hopefully, if the eggs are fertile, the neonates will be strong. This is actually the first clutch of quad eggs I've ever had, fertile or not, that was not the result of a captive breeding.

Both the panther and quad females both used "pilot" holes that I dug with my fingers. Sure makes finding the eggs a lot easier, especially when you're not present for the digging and deposition

Perry

 

[Dave Bolamperti]

Hey Perry,
Congratulations on an amazing week. The waiting for hatch day is hard, and there are lots of prep work to get done before they come. I'm so jealous !
I love baby Chams . You'll have your hands full soon. Good luck
Dave

 

[pamnsam94]

Thanks Dave.

I once had a clutch of quad eggs that started going bad around the 3 month mark. All the eggs, except one, proved to be infertile. When I opened them up, I saw no signs of an embryo or vascularization whatsoever. When the last egg went bad around 4 1/2 months, I expected the same thing but that one had a fully formed baby. We often read that if eggs are infertile, they'll start going bad within a week or so, as evidenced by the eggs denting and molding over. However, that experience more than most others drove home the the point that I should not count on anything hatching even if the eggs look good. At best, I can be cautiously optimistic and will hope for the best.

Two other gravid quads came in the KY shipment. One of them laid 9 eggs. If I remember correctly, I think I was told that unfortunately most of those eggs went bad, except for possibly one. I haven't heard about whether the other female has laid yet. Kevin, care to chime in? If she hasn't laid yet, hopefully she will soon and the eggs will prove to be good.

Anyone care to comment on the shortest gestation time they've experienced with panther chameleons? Even though I've read that 30 days is typical, since my WC female laid her eggs just 18 days after mating, and even though I suppose the eggs might have developed from a mating that occurred in the wild, I wonder what the shortest gestation time ever recorded or experienced was.

Perry

 

[Seiryu]

Hey Perry. Congrats on the eggs!

I have had a female panther lay 21 days after mating, 30 fertile eggs (first time breeding for her). So I don't think 18 is impossible, but definitely the lowest I have personally heard!

I would have personally waited to see if she would produce anything for ~2-3 months before breeding to see if she was already gravid. I have heard of gravid females breeding, although rare.

As for the Quads. Are you saying the Quad female was 44g when you got her 3 months ago and then laid a fertile clutch without you breeding her?

I guess it's time to put a lay box in for my female anyways. I got her in January and she started at 30g and is now over 50g. I am hoping the little one didn't breed in the wild at that size!

 

[Dooley1]

Thanks Dave.

I once had a clutch of quad eggs that started going bad around the 3 month mark. All the eggs, except one, proved to be infertile. When I opened them up, I saw no signs of an embryo or vascularization whatsoever. When the last egg went bad around 4 1/2 months, I expected the same thing but that one had a fully formed baby. We often read that if eggs are infertile, they'll start going bad within a week or so, as evidenced by the eggs denting and molding over. However, that experience more than most others drove home the the point that I should not count on anything hatching even if the eggs look good. At best, I can be cautiously optimistic and will hope for the best.

Two other gravid quads came in the KY shipment. One of them laid 9 eggs. If I remember correctly, I think I was told that unfortunately most of those eggs went bad, except for possibly one. I haven't heard about whether the other female has laid yet. Kevin, care to chime in? If she hasn't laid yet, hopefully she will soon and the eggs will prove to be good.

Anyone care to comment on the shortest gestation time they've experienced with panther chameleons? Even though I've read that 30 days is typical, since my WC female laid her eggs just 18 days after mating, and even though I suppose the eggs might have developed from a mating that occurred in the wild, I wonder what the shortest gestation time ever recorded or experienced was.

Perry

Hey Perry,

Yes, that original female laid 9 eggs with Cheryl and only 1 was fertile. I am incubating that egg now, along with a CB clutch of 9 fertile eggs. They are all due around the 4th of July.

The other female didn't lay yet but she is looking for a spot. She dropped one infertile egg a few days ago, and I suspect the entire clutch will probably be infertile like the first girl. We'll see.

 

[deerharvester]

Some of my panthers have experienced shorter gestation periods as they have had more experience breeding. My guess would be she is order. But, i just bred a faly virgin to one of my newer wc faly males and she immediately took gravid coloration and actions. Congrats on the eggs, very exciting.

Scott

 

[laurellamaisano]

Congrats on the eggs, very exciting.
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