Gular edema during gestation

[KimmieCham]

Hi all -
Last night my veiled laid her first clutch of (32) infertile eggs. About 6 days ago, we noticed a swelling under the gular area which is still present. I have read about the possible causes of gular edema, but was curious if anyone has ever experienced it during gestation/before laying a clutch? Does it ever have anything to do with the calcium levels during/after gestation?

We have had her since Dec 2017 and this is the first time we've ever noticed it (see pics below - the pics of her dirty are today, after laying her clutch, it seems to be more prominent since she's laid)

Thanks for reading!

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - 8-10 month female veiled
• Handling - once or twice a week
• Feeding - Crickets, hornworms, sweet potato, carrot and some other varied fruits and veggies. For about a week we have been feeding her every other day (prior to this, she was being fed every day).
• Supplements - Calcium w/o D3 every other day, D3 & Reptivite twice a month.
• Watering - We mist her three times a day, for about 2-3 minutes at a time. I leave the dripper on 2-3 times a day for 1 to 2 hours.
• Fecal Description - Normal. Had fecal tested, and it came back with some parasites that were deemed non-pathogenic so there has not been treatment.
• History - Bought from PetSmart. Has been doing really well. Was extremely active this past week to two weeks, went on/off her food (assuming due to being ready to lay her clutch), ate and drank this morning after laying eggs

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - ZooMed large cage (18 x 18 x 36)
• Lighting -
  Zoo Med Repti Sun Terrarium Hood 20 inch
  Zoo Med 18" Repti Sun 5.0 UVB bulb
• Temperature - Range from 70 to 90 in the cage, depending on where she goes.
• Humidity - 50-70%
• Plants - Hibiscus and/or Schefflera
• Placement - In one of the main rooms in the house, only two people in my apartment so it's not a busy place. About 3.5 feet off the ground.

 

[jannb]

Welcome to the forums! She’s a very pretty girl.That’s pretty common. My girls have had the swelling in the neck around egg laying time. You are doing a good job with her husbandry.

 

[KimmieCham]

Welcome to the forums! She’s a very pretty girl.That’s pretty common. My girls have had the swelling in the neck around egg laying time. You are doing a good job with her husbandry.

Okay, that is relieving to hear. Is there anything that I should be doing to provide her relief? I have read that it can subside on it's own, as long as it's not due to a more severe problem.

 

[kinyonga]

It should go away on it's own when it happens from the female being gravid. I guess it's just like when humans retain fluids when they're pregnant.
How many eggs did she lay?

 

[KimmieCham]

It should go away on it's own when it happens from the female being gravid. I guess it's just like when humans retain fluids when they're pregnant.
How many eggs did she lay?

Oh, good! There were 32 eggs total.

 

[jannb]

I see you live in Florida. If you can get her some outside time that might help. I always think it helps my girls.

 

[KimmieCham]

I see you live in Florida. If you can get her some outside time that might help. I always think it helps my girls.

Yes! When we bought her larger enclosure, we moved her other one out to the patio. She seemed very restless in the outside enclosure and would climb all over, even on the floor and wouldn't settle. I initially attributed it to stress but now looking back, I wonder if those behaviors were due to her being gravid instead. Once she recovers I will try outside time again and see if she does the same behavior.

 

[jannb]

Yes! When we bought her larger enclosure, we moved her other one out to the patio. She seemed very restless in the outside enclosure and would climb all over, even on the floor and wouldn't settle. I initially attributed it to stress but now looking back, I wonder if those behaviors were due to her being gravid instead. Once she recovers I will try outside time again and see if she does the same behavior.

The females are receptive before they are gravid. When receptive my girls are very active and all over the place. Perhaps they are looking for a male.

 

[bobcochran]

Many keepers make the mistake of overfeeding their females after egg deposition. Thinking they need the extra nutrition to regain good health. When in fact all this does is encourage the female to develop more eggs in the next cycle. In my opinion you should try to keep her egg count between 25 and 30 to increase her lifespan. Try to keep her lean and in good shape, instead of as big as possible and laying up to 75 eggs per clutch. She will benefit from this. Keep in mind temperatures play a role in your chameleons metabolic rate. A lower metabolic rate will produce fewer clutches per lifespan.

 

[kinyonga]

@bobcochran said "Many keepers make the mistake of overfeeding their females after egg deposition. Thinking they need the extra nutrition to regain good health. When in fact all this does is encourage the female to develop more eggs in the next cycle."...so good to hear someone besides me saying this! Thanks!

 

[bobcochran]

@bobcochran said "Many keepers make the mistake of overfeeding their females after egg deposition. Thinking they need the extra nutrition to regain good health. When in fact all this does is encourage the female to develop more eggs in the next cycle."...so good to hear someone besides me saying this! Thanks!

I figured this out back in the 90s when I kept a few calyptratus. The females would eat voraciously especially after they were mature. Their egg count was ridiculously high. Their lifespan was ridiculously short. I messed around with temperatures and food intake and found anything below 30 eggs per clutch help the females live much longer. It's true with Panthers also, but to a lesser degree.

 

[kinyonga]

That's when I was figuring it out too. It seems I can stop production in veiled females altogether and then start it up again when I want to but with Panthers I can only keep the clutch size small...I'm afraid to push them any further in case I cause them harm. I'm happy with that anyway.
I never tried stopping any other chameleon species from producing eggs because I was trying to get babies from them!