Gum/ mouth? Potential mouth rot?

[kiturcotte]

Does this look like early onset mouth rot?
She eats a diet of superpowers, meal worms or crickets about every other day (5-6) and vegetables almost every single day.

I know she is about to lay eggs so she’s a bit grumpy.

Other than that, she has been eating and drinking normally.

Please advise! I am a college student so I’d prefer remedies that would be cheap but if needed we will make a trip to the vet. Thank you!

 

[elizaann2]

Hello and welcome! She is giving you a real nice shot of her mouth! I am not sure myself @Beman or @MissSkittles can you tell if this is the start of mouth rot?

 

[MissSkittles]

The one spot on the upper left looks like a cricket leg. The spot on the lower right is a concern. Unfortunately, with mouth rot the only remedy is a vet visit and antibiotics. The time to treat is as soon as it’s seen. If left untreated, the infection can and will go into the bones of the jaw and become a huge, painful and expensive problem. You have to keep in mind that chameleon teeth are not separate like ours and most animals, but they are a part of the skull bone.
I’m just curious if we’ve ever done a husbandry review for your pretty lady? I ask as her diet could use some improvement. I have some errands I have to run off for before places close, but if you want to provide a pic of her entire enclosure and tell me the basics of her care - what supplements are used and how often for each, temps, humidity and details about her last egg laying - when & how many eggs...we can do a mini review. I’m just always a mother hen about our pretty ladies because of the egg laying.

 

[Beman]

I agree with @MissSkittles lower right would be a concern to me. If it is the start of mouth rot you really are better off treating it asap rather than doing the watch and see what it does method.

I would look at potential causes. Any fake plastic plants in the cage? Or sharper real plants? I personally would avoid the veg. Their bodies are really not meant to process fruit and veg. Also with females you really want to watch what they take in because it does have a direct correlation to clutch size.

I do tend to avoid super worms as they can have quite a bite on them. A bite to the mouth can cause mouth rot. If you do feed superworms make sure they are the small size not the large.

 

[kiturcotte]

Thank you! She is a bit of an odd ball because she is pretty friendly with me, my sweet girl. Whenever I open her cage she is always reaching for me to do a little crawl before going back inside.

I will attach a picture below of her enclosure. The only fake plants she has are thin vines that run along the backside so she has something else to grab while she’s scaling the screen. The black wire has since been moved to be zip tied against the screen so it’s not in her way.

She does eat her money tree and the other vegetation in her cage but I’ve never seen her try to eat any of the wood or vines. She does not eat the plant on the bottom right and it’s definitely sharper than it looks but it is very flimsy in person.

She has a misting system that goes every 4 hours for about 15 seconds.

Temperature is about 88° for basking and I keep my room warmer during the day and a bit colder at night (doesn’t get below 60°)

She only gets a super worm once every other week but I wanted to included everything just to be safe- crickets are definitely her favorite since she likes the hunt.

If the vegetables (romaine lettuce and carrots mostly) are doing more harm than good I will absolutely stop.

Her last clutch was in June and she had 52 eggs, I hope this helps!

I do move her basking light throughout the cage as I like to rearrange it about once a month (using the same plants and everything) just to keep it interesting for her. If this is something that causes her stress I will stop, but she hasn’t shown and displeasure from what I have seen.

Thank you again!

 

[Beman]

Thank you! She is a bit of an odd ball because she is pretty friendly with me, my sweet girl. Whenever I open her cage she is always reaching for me to do a little crawl before going back inside.

I will attach a picture below of her enclosure. The only fake plants she has are thin vines that run along the backside so she has something else to grab while she’s scaling the screen. The black wire has since been moved to be zip tied against the screen so it’s not in her way.

She does eat her money tree and the other vegetation in her cage but I’ve never seen her try to eat any of the wood or vines. She does not eat the plant on the bottom right and it’s definitely sharper than it looks but it is very flimsy in person.

She has a misting system that goes every 4 hours for about 15 seconds.

Temperature is about 88° for basking and I keep my room warmer during the day and a bit colder at night (doesn’t get below 60°)

She only gets a super worm once every other week but I wanted to included everything just to be safe- crickets are definitely her favorite since she likes the hunt.

If the vegetables (romaine lettuce and carrots mostly) are doing more harm than good I will absolutely stop.

Her last clutch was in June and she had 52 eggs, I hope this helps!

I do move her basking light throughout the cage as I like to rearrange it about once a month (using the same plants and everything) just to keep it interesting for her. If this is something that causes her stress I will stop, but she hasn’t shown and displeasure from what I have seen.

Thank you again!

So only thing of note is you need to reduce her basking temp. It should run 78-80 max. This and a reduced feeding plan of 3 feeders 3 days a week will reduce her clutch size. 52 is a lot and we want to get it down to the 20 or so range so it is safer and easier for her.

Per moving stuff around I do not see this as an issue as long as your leaving her lay bin as a permanent fixture and roughly in the same spot. I would recommend replacing the moss vines with the flukers fake vines. The moss ones hold bacteria and moisture which is not good for their feet. Also veileds will chew the moss off so you then end up with an impaction risk.

@MissSkittles will review more with you as she has the hands on experience with the females that I do not have. I just have all the book knowledge lol.

 

[kiturcotte]

So only thing of note is you need to reduce her basking temp. It should run 78-80 max. This and a reduced feeding plan of 3 feeders 3 days a week will reduce her clutch size. 52 is a lot and we want to get it down to the 20 or so range so it is safer and easier for her.

Per moving stuff around I do not see this as an issue as long as your leaving her lay bin as a permanent fixture and roughly in the same spot. I would recommend replacing the moss vines with the flukers fake vines. The moss ones hold bacteria and moisture which is not good for their feet. Also veileds will chew the moss off so you then end up with an impaction risk.

@MissSkittles will review more with you as she has the hands on experience with the females that I do not have. I just have all the book knowledge lol.

Thank you for letting me know! I will go and order some right now.

She definitely is on the bigger side of being a chameleon from what I know (not as in weight but actual size) so I felt a bit bad and that I was “under feeding” her, but I am eager for advice on how to do better and care for her like she deserves so I will absolutely lower her intake.

 

[MissSkittles]

Sorry for the delay…had a lot of stuff to accomplish.
Thank you! She is a bit of an odd ball because she is pretty friendly with me, my sweet girl. Whenever I open her cage she is always reaching for me to do a little crawl before going back inside. Enjoy her sweetness as it may change as she becomes a bit older.

I will attach a picture below of her enclosure. The only fake plants she has are thin vines that run along the backside so she has something else to grab while she’s scaling the screen. The black wire has since been moved to be zip tied against the screen so it’s not in her way. You want to avoid attaching anything to the actual screen since it can rip so easily. I suggest using one of the many other ways to attach things which all involve using the frame to hold the weight. There are Dragon Ledges https://dragonstrand.com/dragon-ledges/ which are even better than sliced bread! For those enclosures that I lacked Dragon Ledges for I’ve used a couple of other methods. Garden trellis works quite well. I used fine wire to attach it to the frame. I drilled some small holes in the trellis where I needed for attachments. In retrospect, I should have drilled some tiny holes in the frame for attachment or even used the screws that hold everything together. My trellis on one has tried to slide down. I do have some light plants being supported by it. Another enclosure I attached slightly bent branches to the frame corners and was able to attach branches and vines to those. It was a smaller enclosure or I would have put a branch between the corners in an ‘H’ shape.

She does eat her money tree and the other vegetation in her cage but I’ve never seen her try to eat any of the wood or vines. That’s pretty typical for veiled girls. Does she have a pothos? Those are always favorite plants to nibble. She does not eat the plant on the bottom right and it’s definitely sharper than it looks but it is very flimsy in person. Corn plant leaves are too tough to eat.

She has a misting system that goes every 4 hours for about 15 seconds. This needs some adjusting. You want to mist less often, but for longer periods. The best times to mist are right before lights go on and off, for at least 2 minutes. If needed, you can add a 1 minute mid day misting or a 15-20 minute dripper at mid day. The enclosure needs time to dry out.

Temperature is about 88° for basking This is much too hot. We keep our ladies at no higher than 80, which helps keep their metabolism on the slower side of normal and I keep my room warmer during the day and a bit colder at night (doesn’t get below 60°) It’s fine if your room does get a little below 60…veileds are pretty hardy with cooler temps. If you are having consistent night temps below 68, you can run a cool mist humidifier and boost humidity all the way at night. This simulates natural hydration gotten thru fog in the wild.

She only gets a super worm once every other week but I wanted to included everything just to be safe- crickets are definitely her favorite since she likes the hunt. It was only after I started giving my chams superworms that two of them developed mouth rot (aka stomatitis). I’ve no way of knowing for sure what caused it for each, but I strongly suspected the superworms. That was the only thing that had changed for them. I still give an occasional superworm, but only maybe one a month or less and I try to give the soft freshly molted white ones. Superworms can bite back. So can hornworms. There are better treats and much better staple feeders to add. Variety is best. I try to keep a few different staple feeders to rotate. I always have roaches and crickets and will rotate giving those with things like silkworms or bsfl. A lot of people have been feeding grasshoppers, which are available from https://feedmychameleon.com/ For treats, wax worms are nice and soft and like candy to just about every reptile. I like to let my bsfl pupate into flies and give my chams some hunting fun with them.
Just as important as what you feed to your pretty girl, is what you feed to the feeders. The orange and other colored jelly cubes and pots are only good for hydration. Fresh produce is usually the best to feed your bugs. You don’t have to gutload (most don’t I think). Just keep your bugs well fed and they’ll be healthy and therefore, more nutritious.
Right now since your girl is expecting eggs soon, just keep feeding her what you normally do. After she’s laid her eggs, feed her very well for a couple of days. Then you are going to start her on a diet, or food regimen, that will decrease the number of eggs that she produces, hopefully the frequency that she produces/lays eggs and possibly will even stop all egg production/laying. 52 eggs is a tremendous amount. The more eggs she produces, the higher her risks for complications in laying them, such as egg binding, retention, etc - plus the stress of it shortens their lives. Anyhow, after she lays her eggs you want to get her started on 3-4 feeders, 3 days a week plus treats. I always feel bad and give the treat on the weekend when they aren’t fed. It may take a cycle or two for the diet to fully kick in. She may get receptive a few times but never lay eggs. That’s what my veiled girls did. You still want to keep a lay bin in her enclosure, but hopefully she’ll never need it.

If the vegetables (romaine lettuce and carrots mostly) are doing more harm than good I will absolutely stop. It’s not really that they are doing any harm that I’m aware of, but they aren’t doing any good either. It’s much better to give the produce to her feeders and just give her some clean safe plants to nibble when she feels like it. Even though veileds nibble their plants (for reasons we don’t really know), they lack the ability to digest plant matter.

Her last clutch was in June and she had 52 eggs, I hope this helps!

I do move her basking light throughout the cage as I like to rearrange it about once a month (using the same plants and everything) just to keep it interesting for her. If this is something that causes her stress I will stop, but she hasn’t shown and displeasure from what I have seen. Generally chameleons dislike change. I would say to get it set up in a way that works well and leave it that way. The only changes I make is replacing plants when they need it.

What supplements are you using? How often for each?

Thank you again!

 

[kiturcotte]

Sorry for the delay…had a lot of stuff to accomplish.
Thank you! She is a bit of an odd ball because she is pretty friendly with me, my sweet girl. Whenever I open her cage she is always reaching for me to do a little crawl before going back inside. Enjoy her sweetness as it may change as she becomes a bit older.

I will attach a picture below of her enclosure. The only fake plants she has are thin vines that run along the backside so she has something else to grab while she’s scaling the screen. The black wire has since been moved to be zip tied against the screen so it’s not in her way. You want to avoid attaching anything to the actual screen since it can rip so easily. I suggest using one of the many other ways to attach things which all involve using the frame to hold the weight. There are Dragon Ledges https://dragonstrand.com/dragon-ledges/ which are even better than sliced bread! For those enclosures that I lacked Dragon Ledges for I’ve used a couple of other methods. Garden trellis works quite well. I used fine wire to attach it to the frame. I drilled some small holes in the trellis where I needed for attachments. In retrospect, I should have drilled some tiny holes in the frame for attachment or even used the screws that hold everything together. My trellis on one has tried to slide down. I do have some light plants being supported by it. Another enclosure I attached slightly bent branches to the frame corners and was able to attach branches and vines to those. It was a smaller enclosure or I would have put a branch between the corners in an ‘H’ shape.

She does eat her money tree and the other vegetation in her cage but I’ve never seen her try to eat any of the wood or vines. That’s pretty typical for veiled girls. Does she have a pothos? Those are always favorite plants to nibble. She does not eat the plant on the bottom right and it’s definitely sharper than it looks but it is very flimsy in person. Corn plant leaves are too tough to eat.

She has a misting system that goes every 4 hours for about 15 seconds. This needs some adjusting. You want to mist less often, but for longer periods. The best times to mist are right before lights go on and off, for at least 2 minutes. If needed, you can add a 1 minute mid day misting or a 15-20 minute dripper at mid day. The enclosure needs time to dry out.

Temperature is about 88° for basking This is much too hot. We keep our ladies at no higher than 80, which helps keep their metabolism on the slower side of normal and I keep my room warmer during the day and a bit colder at night (doesn’t get below 60°) It’s fine if your room does get a little below 60…veileds are pretty hardy with cooler temps. If you are having consistent night temps below 68, you can run a cool mist humidifier and boost humidity all the way at night. This simulates natural hydration gotten thru fog in the wild.

She only gets a super worm once every other week but I wanted to included everything just to be safe- crickets are definitely her favorite since she likes the hunt. It was only after I started giving my chams superworms that two of them developed mouth rot (aka stomatitis). I’ve no way of knowing for sure what caused it for each, but I strongly suspected the superworms. That was the only thing that had changed for them. I still give an occasional superworm, but only maybe one a month or less and I try to give the soft freshly molted white ones. Superworms can bite back. So can hornworms. There are better treats and much better staple feeders to add. Variety is best. I try to keep a few different staple feeders to rotate. I always have roaches and crickets and will rotate giving those with things like silkworms or bsfl. A lot of people have been feeding grasshoppers, which are available from https://feedmychameleon.com/ For treats, wax worms are nice and soft and like candy to just about every reptile. I like to let my bsfl pupate into flies and give my chams some hunting fun with them.
Just as important as what you feed to your pretty girl, is what you feed to the feeders. The orange and other colored jelly cubes and pots are only good for hydration. Fresh produce is usually the best to feed your bugs. You don’t have to gutload (most don’t I think). Just keep your bugs well fed and they’ll be healthy and therefore, more nutritious.
Right now since your girl is expecting eggs soon, just keep feeding her what you normally do. After she’s laid her eggs, feed her very well for a couple of days. Then you are going to start her on a diet, or food regimen, that will decrease the number of eggs that she produces, hopefully the frequency that she produces/lays eggs and possibly will even stop all egg production/laying. 52 eggs is a tremendous amount. The more eggs she produces, the higher her risks for complications in laying them, such as egg binding, retention, etc - plus the stress of it shortens their lives. Anyhow, after she lays her eggs you want to get her started on 3-4 feeders, 3 days a week plus treats. I always feel bad and give the treat on the weekend when they aren’t fed. It may take a cycle or two for the diet to fully kick in. She may get receptive a few times but never lay eggs. That’s what my veiled girls did. You still want to keep a lay bin in her enclosure, but hopefully she’ll never need it.

If the vegetables (romaine lettuce and carrots mostly) are doing more harm than good I will absolutely stop. It’s not really that they are doing any harm that I’m aware of, but they aren’t doing any good either. It’s much better to give the produce to her feeders and just give her some clean safe plants to nibble when she feels like it. Even though veileds nibble their plants (for reasons we don’t really know), they lack the ability to digest plant matter.

Her last clutch was in June and she had 52 eggs, I hope this helps!

I do move her basking light throughout the cage as I like to rearrange it about once a month (using the same plants and everything) just to keep it interesting for her. If this is something that causes her stress I will stop, but she hasn’t shown and displeasure from what I have seen. Generally chameleons dislike change. I would say to get it set up in a way that works well and leave it that way. The only changes I make is replacing plants when they need it.

What supplements are you using? How often for each?

Thank you again!
View attachment 345934View attachment 345935

No worries!! Thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to help me with this.

I will look into the new attachments for the cage to better attach her vines.
She does have a pothos and she likes it, but since I think the money tree is so bigger she focuses on it more. I will be shopping for a bigger one!

I will change the misting system first thing in the morning.

I will stay away from the super worms. Led astray by the pet store once more ;( sorry, Cairo! My apologies, it seems I have mixed up my feeders as well. I meant that I give her the hornworms every so often (as a little fruit-gusher-eqsue treat) but I would also give her super worms. That stops TONIGHT

I will stop moving her plants around unless necessary, but her lay bun is always there and stays in the same place so I will continue to keep it there

I give the feeders a mix of veggies and gutloaded feed/ grain? along with hydration cubes, but I will just give them veggies from now on.

I dust the feeders with one of three supplements:

About twice a month I will do Zoo Med’s ReptiCalcium with D3 OR Zoo Med’s Reptivite with D3

Besides that, every feeding is dusted with Fluker’s calcium without D3

 

[MissSkittles]

About twice a month I will do Zoo Med’s ReptiCalcium with D3 OR Zoo Med’s Reptivite with D3

You don’t need the ReptiCalcium with D3. The ReptiVite with D3 is a complete combo and just that twice a month (plus the calcium without D3 at every feeding) is all you need.

 

[kiturcotte]

You don’t need the ReptiCalcium with D3. The ReptiVite with D3 is a complete combo and just that twice a month (plus the calcium without D3 at every feeding) is all you need.

You’re a lifesaver. Thank you so much again!

I will try and call the vet tomorrow and see what can be done about antibiotics.
Fingers crossed it isn’t super expensive, the only vet I know that will see chameleons is in my hometown and Cairo hates car rides *sigh*

 

[MissSkittles]

You’re a lifesaver. Thank you so much again!

I will try and call the vet tomorrow and see what can be done about antibiotics.
Fingers crossed it isn’t super expensive, the only vet I know that will see chameleons is in my hometown and Cairo hates car rides *sigh*

If you put him in a closed box (with a couple of air holes of course), if it’s dark enough he’ll fall asleep. Crossing my fingers for you.

 

[Sonny13]

You’re a lifesaver. Thank you so much again!

I will try and call the vet tomorrow and see what can be done about antibiotics.
Fingers crossed it isn’t super expensive, the only vet I know that will see chameleons is in my hometown and Cairo hates car rides *sigh*

One small thing you could try, before you unnecessarily stress her and pay money for nothing. You could try to clean it with a q-tip drenched lukewarm water. If you can remove it, it’s probably some bug juice leftover, if not you know you need to visit the vet. I’ve had this several times with my chams and so far, luckily, it was always bug juice or similar.

 

[Gloriawood]

Just want to say welcome to you and your cutie we are glad to have you guys here. You are in great hands with missskittles. She helped me when I first started