Gut loading crickets what to use besides the cricket food they got online

Fruits and Vegetables on this list, pick at least 3 vegetables and 2 fruits.
53CE8B8B-F712-4C55-8CF8-23F4DCA24972.jpeg
 
Troodlesn said:
For gut loading, you are supposed to give fruits and veggies like are on this sheet.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/images/ccr/care-images/chameleon-gutload.jpg
Click to expand...

The logic of gutloading is weird and the recommended gutloads do not make sense

Chameleons do not diggest plant matter
Therefore. Guoading witb plant matter is meaningless
It is same as if you would gutload with sand,
Also meaningless.

These things are good to FEED the insects, NOT GUTLOAD.

Good gutload option is something, they can digest and have benefit from, like
E.g. Bee Pollen or mineral and vitamin mixtures
 
Gingero said:
This video should help. Also shows you how to do it:

Click to expand...


I am sorry to not be enthusiastic about this video, and this comment is made not to offend anyone but itnis finally time to dace the FACTS and NOT continue with the gutloading nonsense that has spread as a fashion accross internet... These recommendations have absolutely no scientific basis, they are repeated and perotted imaginations and formulations of other people that dare to introduce to the community things that absolutely do not make sense and are not backed ho with any measurable experience and no science.

All what is shown is GREAT AS FOOD FOR FEEDERS

BUT, if speaking for GUTLOADING, it almost all DOES NOT MAKE SENSE:

1. IT IS UNNATURAL - most of the shown ingredients you will never ever find in the stomachs off insects that are eaten by a Chameleons in the wild with few exceptions like maybe the juices of some fruits but definitely not apple... The reason is very simple, the insects living in areas that chameleons live in have no access to this type of food and even if they would have, they would not eat it. So again it is not natural.

2. CHAMELEONS CAN NOT DIGEST PLANT
MATTER
Therefore, to force them to swallow an insect which is fully gutloaded with something that they cannot digest is absolutely meaningless and can be even harmful. It is the same as if you would gutload with sand. Chameleons cannot digest sand so why would you give them?

All the concept of gut-loading, If it would be to increase the nutritional value of the feeder, is false. Because to increase the nutritional value the major part of the food inevitably must be digestible. And it is

So, what to do?
DO: FEED FEEDERS HIGH QUALITY FOOD so that they become more nutritional
DO: BUTLOAD FEEDERS WITH SOMETHING THEY CAN DIGEST: BEE POLLEN AND VITAMINS AND MINERAL MIXTURES

I once more apologize for that type of feedback because I agree with everyone that the video is cute and adorable. it unluckily is based on materials without scientific back up and continues to spread information that in this forum really does not make sense, it is a not beneficial and might be even harmful for the Chameleons.

I say this with all the respect for tha sake of truth and science and evidence and for the benefit
Of chameleons.
Now you can crucify me
But do so please with facts and not with imaginations
 
Last edited:
PetNcs said:
So, what to do?
DO: FEED FEEDERS HIGH QUALITY FOOD so that they become more nutritional
DO: BUTLOAD FEEDERS WITH SOMETHING THEY CAN DIGEST: BEE POLLEN AND VITAMINS AND MINERAL MIXTURES
Click to expand...
I’m familiar with bee pollen and use it regularly. But I’m not sure how to make a vitamin and mineral mixture unless it’s a pre-made product. Can you share what is included in the vitamin and mineral mixtures?
 
PetNcs said:
I am sorry to not be enthusiastic about this video, and this comment is made not to offend anyone but itnis finally time to dace the FACTS and NOT continue with the gutloading nonsense that has spread as a fashion accross internet... These recommendations have absolutely no scientific basis, they are repeated and perotted imaginations and formulations of other people that dare to introduce to the community things that absolutely do not make sense and are not backed ho with any measurable experience and no science.

All what is shown is GREAT AS FOOD FOR FEEDERS

BUT, if speaking for GUTLOADING, it almost all DOES NOT MAKE SENSE:

1. IT IS UNNATURAL - most of the shown ingredients you will never ever find in the stomachs off insects that are eaten by a Chameleons in the wild with few exceptions like maybe the juices of some fruits but definitely not apple... The reason is very simple, the insects living in areas that chameleons live in have no access to this type of food and even if they would have, they would not eat it. So again it is not natural.

2. CHAMELEONS CAN NOT DIGEST PLANT
MATTER
Therefore, to force them to swallow an insect which is fully gutloaded with something that they cannot digest is absolutely meaningless and can be even harmful. It is the same as if you would gutload with sand. Chameleons cannot digest sand so why would you give them?

All the concept of gut-loading, If it would be to increase the nutritional value of the feeder, is false. Because to increase the nutritional value the major part of the food inevitably must be digestible. And it is

So, what to do?
DO: FEED FEEDERS HIGH QUALITY FOOD so that they become more nutritional
DO: BUTLOAD FEEDERS WITH SOMETHING THEY CAN DIGEST: BEE POLLEN AND VITAMINS AND MINERAL MIXTURES

I once more apologize for that type of feedback because I agree with everyone that the video is cute and adorable. it unluckily is based on materials without scientific back up and continues to spread information that in this forum really does not make sense, it is a not beneficial and might be even harmful for the Chameleons.

I say this with all the respect for tha sake of truth and science and evidence and for the benefit
Of chameleons.
Now you can crucify me
But do so please with facts and not with imaginations
Click to expand...
Some chameleons eat the plants that are in their cage along with flowers. Why do they eat it if they can’t properly digest it?
 
Gingero said:
I’m familiar with bee pollen and use it regularly. But I’m not sure how to make a vitamin and mineral mixture unless it’s a pre-made product. Can you share what is included in the vitamin and mineral mixtures?
Click to expand...

Inrefer to the commercially available multivitamin mixtures widely available on the market and used in
Chameleon husbandry, which try to compensate the low lever of nutritional value and absence
Of Some of the particles in the captive food items.
You can dust with them or you can easily gutload with them
 
Haley Hendrix said:
Some chameleons eat the plants that are in their cage along with flowers. Why do they eat it if they can’t properly digest it?
Click to expand...

There is a huge and very detailed thread here in CF, find it. The most probable version is my theiry of digestion aid utilizing their undigestability...
 
Isn’t the plant matter at least partially broken down as the bug eats it? I know nothing of insect digestive process’, but in most creatures digestion begins with being broken down with chewing and the enzymes in saliva before it travels to the stomach, where acids continue the process.
I don’t truly gutload, as in stuffing my feeders with healthy food just prior to feeding. I feed all of my bugs very well with fresh organic produce along with bug burger that I add bee pollen and spirulina to. My thinking is I want my bugs to be healthy in order to be more nutritious.
Many new keepers that we see use cricket cubes, which really only keep the insects hydrated and not necessarily very healthy or nutritious.
 
MissSkittles said:
Isn’t the plant matter at least partially broken down as the bug eats it? I know nothing of insect digestive process’, but in most creatures digestion begins with being broken down with chewing and the enzymes in saliva before it travels to the stomach, where acids continue the process.
I don’t truly gutload, as in stuffing my feeders with healthy food just prior to feeding. I feed all of my bugs very well with fresh organic produce along with bug burger that I add bee pollen and spirulina to. My thinking is I want my bugs to be healthy in order to be more nutritious.
Many new keepers that we see use cricket cubes, which really only keep the insects hydrated and not necessarily very healthy or nutritious.
Click to expand...

Well, the gutloading purpose is to deliver, what we give them to eat, to the chameleon, as I understand from
All the concept.
Noone ever spoke About gutloading being the way how to feed the insects something to pre-digest for the chameleon...

It is a quite interesting idea and your question is to be answered with
Well, of course it will be partly broken down by the insect using insect ferments that breaks it down for the insect to digest it, not for the chameleon. The insect physiology is very different from a vertebrate one.

An idea that chameleons would
Purposefully use insects to predigest something that they can not digest due to their specialization on insects makes no sense Evolutionarily. Why they would become insect eating specialist to compensate their inability to digest plant Matter through external resources when they could develop ability to digest it if it would be necessary for them...
I frankly hesitate to accept this thoughts just do not say it is absolutely impossible, rather highly improbable...
 
PetNcs said:
I am sorry to not be enthusiastic about this video, and this comment is made not to offend anyone but itnis finally time to dace the FACTS and NOT continue with the gutloading nonsense that has spread as a fashion accross internet... These recommendations have absolutely no scientific basis, they are repeated and perotted imaginations and formulations of other people that dare to introduce to the community things that absolutely do not make sense and are not backed ho with any measurable experience and no science.

All what is shown is GREAT AS FOOD FOR FEEDERS

BUT, if speaking for GUTLOADING, it almost all DOES NOT MAKE SENSE:

1. IT IS UNNATURAL - most of the shown ingredients you will never ever find in the stomachs off insects that are eaten by a Chameleons in the wild with few exceptions like maybe the juices of some fruits but definitely not apple... The reason is very simple, the insects living in areas that chameleons live in have no access to this type of food and even if they would have, they would not eat it. So again it is not natural.

2. CHAMELEONS CAN NOT DIGEST PLANT
MATTER
Therefore, to force them to swallow an insect which is fully gutloaded with something that they cannot digest is absolutely meaningless and can be even harmful. It is the same as if you would gutload with sand. Chameleons cannot digest sand so why would you give them?

All the concept of gut-loading, If it would be to increase the nutritional value of the feeder, is false. Because to increase the nutritional value the major part of the food inevitably must be digestible. And it is

So, what to do?
DO: FEED FEEDERS HIGH QUALITY FOOD so that they become more nutritional
DO: BUTLOAD FEEDERS WITH SOMETHING THEY CAN DIGEST: BEE POLLEN AND VITAMINS AND MINERAL MIXTURES

I once more apologize for that type of feedback because I agree with everyone that the video is cute and adorable. it unluckily is based on materials without scientific back up and continues to spread information that in this forum really does not make sense, it is a not beneficial and might be even harmful for the Chameleons.

I say this with all the respect for tha sake of truth and science and evidence and for the benefit
Of chameleons.
Now you can crucify me
But do so please with facts and not with imaginations
Click to expand...
I’d like to break this down so I am sure that I understand because I think it’s an important topic

1. When you refer to GUTLOAD, you mean only what is physically within the digestive tract of the insect when it is fed to the chameleon. Is this correct?


2. The Foods shown in the picture above represent very good food to care for and grow insects, but they would not be found in a wild insects diet and are indigestible by the chameleon When they are sitting in the insects digestive tract. Is this also correct?

my interpretation is that you suggest I raise and care for my insects with the above mentioned high quality foods, and then, prior to feeding insects to my chameleon, I should gutload those insects with bee pollen, vitamins, and minerals
 
Last edited:
PetNcs said:
Well, the gutloading purpose is to deliver, what we give them to eat, to the chameleon, as I understand from
All the concept.
Noone ever spoke About gutloading being the way how to feed the insects something to pre-digest for the chameleon...

It is a quite interesting idea and your question is to be answered with
Well, of course it will be partly broken down by the insect using insect ferments that breaks it down for the insect to digest it, not for the chameleon. The insect physiology is very different from a vertebrate one.

An idea that chameleons would
Purposefully use insects to predigest something that they can not digest due to their specialization on insects makes no sense Evolutionarily. Why they would become insect eating specialist to compensate their inability to digest plant Matter through external resources when they could develop ability to digest it if it would be necessary for them...
I frankly hesitate to accept this thoughts just do not say it is absolutely impossible, rather highly improbable...
Click to expand...
To @MissSkittles point, regardless of the evolutionary purpose, it seems very possible this process of insect “pre-digestion” within the insects digestive tract could make some of the nutritional value of the insects gut available to the chameleon

This may be somewhat inefficient, and unnatural, but not illogical
 
@PetNcs is there any nutritional studies of wild caught insects in the chameleons natural environment?

I've seen several regarding commercial insects, and also some data on gut contents of wild chameleons, but I’ve never seen any that evaluates wild endemic insect nutritional data

it would be great to have this data, it could guide the feeding and supplementation of our feeders in a much more precise way
 
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