Gut loading frenzy

I mean, Not gonna lie, PetNCS started with good grammar, but became really hard to read.

That being said, you're not gonna get a healthy dog by feeding him really nutritious food once.
That's my un-asked 2 cents and I don't expect change back.
 
jamest0o0 said:
That's a bad argument, americans go to excess yes, but those that are obese aren't eating home cooked, nutritious meals from trader Joe's, whole foods, (insert grocery store here)... @Beman beat me to it. Another thing you'll notice about americans, they're either in really good shape, or really bad shape. Many of the world's best athletes come from here. We have plenty of access to the best food, our obesity issues have nothing to do with that
Click to expand...

My point is
Better food is not always better food
 
@Thatwizard420 said..."That being said, you're not gonna get a healthy dog by feeding him really nutritious food once"... My idea has always been to feed the insects a food nutritious diet that they could digest so they would be as strong and healthy as possible...and then dust the insects with whatever other nutrients I felt the chameleon might be missing from eating insects unnatural to their native land. That's why I always say feed/gutload making no difference between them.
 
Highway61 said:
This is hilarious coming from the robust gentlemen in the videos. Petr, would you say the food you yourself consumes is "better food"?
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No you clever boy, I have bad feeding habits and too
Mich stress from idiots
That is kind if insult which is under waste lime,
Really ugly and inferior
I ar least do kor hide under a fake coward avatar
 
Beman said:
How does comparing the obesity issue of Americans that live off fast food even remotely compare with those of us that buy all organic fruit and veg for our gutload? McDonalds is by no means my local Natural foods store. I don't even understand how you can compare what your trying to compare.
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It was a joke
And it was not a hood joke, I apologize
 
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Just to clear up an interesting point that came up earlier, @PetNcs when you say grass do you mean what we would call hay? Cattle and horse grade grass feed? We have access to timothy, orchard grass, bermuda, oat hay and some others. Are any of these close to what you recommend as more natural?
 
Lennoncham said:
Well to play devils advocate. (I’m not saying these are right)


“Gut-loading is simply force feeding the insects a diet packed with calcium and nutrients to temporarily fill their gastrointestinal tract. Once engorged with the beneficial mixture, those insects are fed to the reptile.”

https://timberlinefresh.com/blog/un...y-it-may-be-necessary-its-risks-and-pitfalls/

“Gut loading is also very easy: simply provide your feeder insects with nutritious feed at least a few hours before offering them to your lizards!”

https://www.joshsfrogs.com/catalog/blog/2019/07/increasing-feeder-bug-nutrition-gut-loading/

“The nutrients given the insect are meant to nourish the insectivore, not the insect. The purpose of gut loading is to get (often plant-based) food and its nutrients into an (often carnivorous) animal to satisfy that animal’s nutritional needs.”

“Traditionally, “gut loading” means feeding an insect a lot of stuff that is good for the insectivore shortly before they are fed off. The implication here is that the food in the insect’s belly (the gutload) ends up in the belly of the insectivore largely undigested.”


“This is how it works in the wild. Insects eat plants, then insectivores eat the insects that ate the plants. These insects often have undigested plant matter in their guts, and this is how nutrition passes from insect to insectivore. This is gut loading. This is what we want to imitate in captivity.”


https://dubiaroachdepot.com/guidance/gut-loading-dubia-roaches

“As the words suggest, gut loading is about filling the insect's gut with healthy nutritious foods.”

https://www.wikihow.com/Gut-Load-Locusts-and-Crickets



“Gut-loading literally translates to loading the intestines with a highly nutritious food.”

“Gut-loading is done by feeding insects a high quality, highly palatable and nutritious diet within a short period before feeding them“


https://beardeddragoncare.info/supplementation-through-gut-loading/



'gut loading' is (or was) 'feeding something special to a feeder animal immediately before using that animal as a feeder so that the predator is supplemented by the stomach contents of the prey animal'.

https://www.dendroboard.com/threads/gut-loading-fruit-flies.348906/
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It prooves @ferretininmushoes that again yiu are wrong
Ehat yoj are forcefully selling us as indistrybstandard is industry standard just in your imagination and the area is full ofmimcomsisyences. But this, you again will as isial ignore, not acknowledge neither apologize but continue ridiculing me and falsifying the whole topic
 
kinyonga said:
“The nutrients given the insect are meant to nourish the insectivore, not the insect. The purpose of gut loading is to get (often plant-based) food and its nutrients into an (often carnivorous) animal to satisfy that animal’s nutritional needs.”.....
"This is how it works in the wild. Insects eat plants, then insectivores eat the insects that ate the plants. These insects often have undigested plant matter in their guts, and this is how nutrition passes from insect to insectivore. This is gut loading. This is what we want to imitate in captivity.”...

Don't the nutrients have to be able to be digested by the chameleon or they will do it no good nutritionally?
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This was my point
Nut my English is so bad that I could not get it explained
And my Respect is too low to
For the most leople tk listen to me and try tonunderstand
Mea culpa
 
JacksJill said:
Just to clear up an interesting point that came up earlier, @PetNcs when you say grass do you mean what we would call hay? Cattle and horse grade grass feed? We have access to timothy, orchard grass, bermuda, oat hay and some others. Are any of these close to what you recommend as more natural?
Click to expand...
Well yes, hay is maybe a beyter expression
In the case of Yemen chameleons. About 5-10% of the food are orthopterans and yes, those eaten feed predominantly on hay
 
PetNcs said:
This was my point
Nut my English is so bad that I could not get it explained
And my Respect is too low to
For the most leople tk listen to me and try tonunderstand
Mea culpa
Click to expand...
With all the conversations/debate going on here I just wanted to give my two cents worth.
Your English is much better than any other language I could pretend to speak except maybe French. Even so, sometimes things are hard to explain in a way that everyone understands.
I do have to say that your typing makes me work a bit sometimes! :)
 
jackthejellydragon said:
I meant more dry than Madagascar and I don't buy what chameleon McDonalds is I buy what chameleon organic whole food is just because I live in the us I don't have to be obese nor does my chameleon. people that are fat eat bad food and don't exercise Im 11 and play tackle football but I'm 5 foot 2 113 pounds not fat.
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So, Nosy Be, Ambanja and Ambilobe, the most frequent places of Madagascar, captive chameleons come from, habe yearly rainfall even slightky lower than the Parys of auemen, homecountry od Yemen Chameleon

Good to have a healthy lifestyle, my son is same
 
PetNcs said:
You have not made any single attempt to address the main focus of my post
Regardless Whether It is called gutloading correct or incorrect way
Does it
Make sense to force chameleons to ingest undigestable food items? Because many people regardless of your manipulative defence of a stulid term that hasnin your opinion a completely meaning than whag is saus, DO
COMSIDER GUTLOADING a process of feeding animals WITH THINGS JUST PRIOR TO FEEDING THEM IMMEDIATELY TO CHAMELEONS.

Yhis
And nothing else I addressed in my original
Post
And I explicitely defined the term
I use, so that it is clear what I mean.
You aways choose to ridicule me instead tk try to understand what I mean.

And K insist that it IS meaningless and Potentially harmful.

And ai insist that feeding oranges and almonds is potentially harmful and therefore wrong to recommend, which yiu DO.
Click to expand...

I have tried to address your points but the goalposts keep moving.

I stand corrected on other sites using gutloading in its literal meaning. Our resources say 12-24 hours after feeding feeders. But I also maintain that there is absolutely no evidence that literal gutloading is not effective and you have yet to provide any. Why does it have to be digested by the cricket first to be able to be digested by the chameleon? What evidence do you have that that is necessary and that crickets digest it in a beneficial way? Have you seen the size of a cricket mouth and alimentary canal? They are not eating entire leaves, which you say chameleons cannot process - they are minuscule pieces, and they digest the food very quickly regardless. My veiled ate whole leaves of vegetation (collard greens, mustard greens, etc) near daily and I never once saw intact plant pieces in his feces btw. Perhaps this is different from your experience with wild chameleons due to the type of vegetation consumed. Maybe our commercial produce is easier to digest. So even with the other definitions from other sites "a short time" after feeding the feeders is not well defined but if it is even a few hours then digestion has already occurred so digestion has still taken place. Therefore, still beneficial by your standards.

I provided evidence that ingestion of a variety of vegetables or other gutloads increases the nutrient composition of crickets. As well as evidence that multiple species of reptiles and birds have shown health benefits after ingesting said feeders with different intervals. I put them in my response for everyone to see and investigate further if they'd like.

Provide evidence that oranges or almonds are harmful to reptile species and we can talk about it.

Provide evidence that chameleons cannot digest even minuscule pieces of intact fruits or veggies and we can talk about it.

Provide evidence that we are forcing ingestion of indigestible food items and we can talk about it.

That is how to properly have this kind of discussion. Not just who yells the most.
 
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PetNcs said:
So, Nosy Be, Ambanja and Ambilobe, the most frequent places of Madagascar, captive chameleons come from, habe yearly rainfall even slightky lower than the Parys of auemen, homecountry od Yemen Chameleon

Good to have a healthy lifestyle, my son is same
Click to expand...
thanks for the info did not know that and good that your sons fit too.
 
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