Half Albino chameleons

[Chris Anderson]

they are inbreed don't waste your time with them but thats my opinion!!! severly inbreed!!!

Yes the original three were found in the wild sir, but How do you think they kept it going? By inbreeding.

Its a personal opinion, you don't need to get on to people for having one.

No, you don't need to get on people for having an opinion but those who express their opinion should probably have half a clue before they open their mouth...

This morph is a codominant trait meaning that unlike recessive traits, they can be outcrossed with bloodlines that are not related and do not have the trait and the trait is still visible, albeit in a lesser quantity. The result is that many breeders have outcrossed this locale with unrelated bloodlines, including F1 and WC lines, specifically to strengthen the lines. Thus, many of the translucent bloodlines available in the US are less inbred than the majority of veileds you would otherwise see.

Chris

 

[melric]

I was just going to say that I know breeders have been mixing them with other bloodlines to strengthen them. How do you think they are coming up with sunburst trans. I think tiki tiki is coming out with some soon.

 

[ken2414]

Translucents...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/translucent-veiled-55576/

and kinyonga FTW. there kind of creepy looking with no pigment or just pink. looks like they are skinned.

 

[alexbrock]

and kinyonga FTW. there kind of creepy looking with no pigment or just pink. looks like they are skinned.

hahaha skinned.

 

[javsto]

I really like "normal" looking vieleds. I wasent so sure what a translucent variety looked like until this thread and my personal opiinions is that while some ppl might like that "different" look, to me those tranys and albino's look sick-ish to me so i would just stick with the normal ones. I love the panther crossbreeds and hope to own one later this year @ the next Long Island show if there are any available but im def going to pick up a baby vieled package this weekend from LLL.

 

[Ace]

i wouldnt interested unless they were full bodied trans or white, not pink or black, that just looks sad to me, but its cool Chris got in a word about this, thanks again

 

[seanUTD]

Half a clue? As you said yourself LESS inbred so for me calling them inbred is pretty much half a clue.. I'm not going to argue with someone about semantics here especially when I am nowhere near an expert. All I did was say IMHO they looked depressing and inbred and many others share this opinion... Again I won't argue facts because I am obviously not one to make an argument. I will say I am not very excited about voicing any opinion I have in these forums to the point I thought I could. That is upsetting.

 

[pssh]

An opinion is fine to voice.

Yes, they might be somewhat inbred, but so are "normal, natural" veileds. Chris is saying that they are probably less likely to be. So saying that you like "normal" veileds more than "trans" veileds (because they are inbred) sort of doesn't make sense.

 

[JohnnyMurderus]

all i can say is my trans girl veiled doesn't act, eat, shit, sleep, or drink differently then any veiled I've ever seen IMO. still an amazing reptiles regardless of there " sickly" color.

 

[seanUTD]

It has become a matter of semantics and what the terms refer to rather than what it actually means... I understand exactly what they are, I never assumed the bloodlines was pure inbred. What I was saying is that when they came to the knowledge of experts and breeders, inbreeding was used. I used the term loosely where as it has been assumed I mention absolute literal. I wouldn't assume sites and breeders such as FLChams would use these methods to achieve a pure morph. I'm kinda done with this it's gone on too far.. Like I said, I have no argument and it seems pointless tovargue via internet about opinions.

 

[Leroux2008]

and kinyonga FTW. there kind of creepy looking with no pigment or just pink. looks like they are skinned.

I was just thinking the same thing!!

 

[pssh]

Pure morph? What do you mean?

It would be possible to take the first individuals and breed them to other non-trans veileds immediately and to breed the offspring to get a certain amount of trans babies from them. This gene wouldn't need inbreeding to get the high trans individuals.

 

[reyesjoshuacruz]

How do you think they are coming up with sunburst trans. I think tiki tiki is coming out with some soon.

lol.........

 

[Chris Anderson]

Sean,

I don't believe there is a semantics issue, you said what you said and I'm pointing out that it does not make sense and seems to reflect an unsupported assumption about the trait and the breeding practices of those who produce them. You said you prefer the way they are naturally (which is fine, I tend to agree), not the animals that were altered or maintained by inbreeding. The fact is what you consider the natural type is typically more inbred than the translucent and the translucent gene was naturally occurring. Further, the translucent gene in and of itself, because of the way it is inherited (codominant trait), does not need to be inbred in order to be expressed or maintained, allowing it to be easily outbred to strengthen the lines while maintaining the ability of the breeder to accurately select for carriers for future breedings. At some point these carriers need to be bred back to each other to produce the high-trans, but the result is the ability to produce bloodlines that are in fact less inbred than most captive bloodlines of the normal types. Given the fact that translucents were naturally occurring in the wild, not "altered" somehow, and that they tend to be less inbred than the normal types, your justification for indicating that the translucents are produced by "people who inbreed and destroy blood lines for shear shock value" is inaccurate and an unfair assumption.

Now, if you intended just to say they look sickly and unattractive in your opinion, that is another thing all together. As I've already mentioned, I'm a purist myself and tend to prefer purity to morphs as well, but opinions on looks relative to normal types and the reality of genetic relatedness and breeding practices relative to normal types are very different subjects.

Chris

 

[eisentrauti]

Sean,

I don't believe there is a semantics issue, you said what you said and I'm pointing out that it does not make sense and seems to reflect an unsupported assumption about the trait and the breeding practices of those who produce them. You said you prefer the way they are naturally (which is fine, I tend to agree), not the animals that were altered or maintained by inbreeding. The fact is what you consider the natural type is typically more inbred than the translucent and the translucent gene was naturally occurring. Further, the translucent gene in and of itself, because of the way it is inherited (codominant trait), does not need to be inbred in order to be expressed or maintained, allowing it to be easily outbred to strengthen the lines while maintaining the ability of the breeder to accurately select for carriers for future breedings. At some point these carriers need to be bred back to each other to produce the high-trans, but the result is the ability to produce bloodlines that are in fact less inbred than most captive bloodlines of the normal types. Given the fact that translucents were naturally occurring in the wild, not "altered" somehow, and that they tend to be less inbred than the normal types, your justification for indicating that the translucents are produced by "people who inbreed and destroy blood lines for shear shock value" is inaccurate and an unfair assumption.

Now, if you intended just to say they look sickly and unattractive in your opinion, that is another thing all together. As I've already mentioned, I'm a purist myself and tend to prefer purity to morphs as well, but opinions on looks relative to normal types and the reality of genetic relatedness and breeding practices relative to normal types are very different subjects.

Chris

Of course you are right here BUT the average "breeder" has no idea about genetics in detail. This kind of "breeder" will never cross in a WC calyptratus (btw: are those WC ones not just offspring from broken out CB lines, which were well select by nature ?) in a line which promises special color = more $s.

 

[pssh]

I suppose the above is true for the small one or two pair breeders, but since there are actual people who have indeed outbred them, it would be easy enough to obtain several individuals from several different lines. wouldn't it?

 

[dmrich]

My opinion is that they don't look very nice anyway. A guy had a male in the local shop, and it always looked small, skinny and sickly until it eventually died at just over a year old. It was about a third to half the size of my 'normal' male (they were around the same age give or take a couple of months) when it died. Whether it was the care or the genetics of the animal I have no idea, but the animal never looked 'right' and clearly wasn't ....

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

I suppose the above is true for the small one or two pair breeders, but since there are actual people who have indeed outbred them, it would be easy enough to obtain several individuals from several different lines. wouldn't it?

absolutly ...

 

[jdog1027]

My opinion is that they don't look very nice anyway. A guy had a male in the local shop, and it always looked small, skinny and sickly until it eventually died at just over a year old. It was about a third to half the size of my 'normal' male (they were around the same age give or take a couple of months) when it died. Whether it was the care or the genetics of the animal I have no idea, but the animal never looked 'right' and clearly wasn't ....

I think your right. I for personally think they are pretty neat- I bred cornsnakes for years and I tend to enjoy normaly colored animals as well as morphs, and corns were all about the morphs. But these Veileds do seem to be somewhat skinny looking. I don't know if this is a result of genetics or they quality of their care. Look at the link Kinyonga posted- does that guys legs not look extremely long and thin?

 

[Necorawr]

I think thats just the way the chameleon posed. He looks like a normal veiled to me. Thrall looks like that when hes climbing over something, and only recently did his legs start to match his body and fatten up. With the way their skin looks though like on one arm and not the other i can see it being sort of awkward, but aside from lack of color, are pretty normal.. To me, anyways.