Handling concerns and issues- advice wanted

meleondollars

New Member
Hi everyone thanks for looking. To the point then...


Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? Veiled, female, purchased end of May 2011, believed to be 6-8 weeks old.
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? Every few days or when I try to get her outside to bask (everyday lately). Usually for 5 minutes or so at a time during transport or holding.
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? Primary diet is ½” crickets, between 15-25 a day. Gets them around 9:30 ish everyday. Large superworm every other day Feeders gutloaded with carrots and Dandelion greens or romaine. Sometimes beats or potatoes also. Use Flukers gel with D-3 for water.
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? Zoo Med Repticalcium with D3 every 2 weeks and RepCal Calcium every day.
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? Mist King – 2 nozzles, 3 times a day for 5 minutes each. I have never seen her drink and she dislikes the water.
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? Normal poop, white urea. Does not show signs of dehydration. Never Tested
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. Bought her from Petsmart (ducking tomatoes being thrown). I know, but I was ignorant at the time of purchase.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? DIY brand screen enclosure 2x2x4’
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? 18” Zilla Tropical series T8 and Zilla 65 watt heat bulb (I think). On 12 hrs a day 7:30 – 7:30
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Basking spot is 80+- a few. Bottom of cage is room temp… whether AC is on or not. AC set at 77. I have a Zilla digital hygrometer/thermometer.
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? Humidity is from 50-80%. Use black garbage bags on 2 sides of cage and also have a few live plants in enclosure.
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? Ficus tree and a few other very small ones that I do not remember the names of but have identified them as being safe.
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? Enclosure is on top of a coffee table next to a book shelve located in a den/study area. Very low traffic and not near vents or fans. At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? Top of cage is around 6’
Location - Where are you geographically located? Upstate New York.

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

Cham used to be very chill when being handled. No signs of aggression or stress when picking up or handling. Now, she hisses and gets on her hind legs and is very aggressive about being picked up. Once she is picked up she is fine. I have tried different approaches and none seem to make her more comfortable. Only major change recently is the Mist King system I installed. I have since reduced the frequency and increased the duration. She seems to hate it. Installed about 1 week before I started to notice the issue. I know that they dont like to be handled, but I want some advice on how to handle her so she can enjoy some outside real sun time frequently. She has not bit me before but seems to be tempted to.
Also, are there health concerns about being bit? Are their bites very bad and painful? I know previous reptiles I owned had health implications and was very painful.
Thanks in advance.
 
Most chams do not like to be handled. Handling should be kept to a minimum. As they get settled into their cage, they can become more aggressive as you are invading their home. Cage aggression is common with many reptiles.

Do you have a UVB bulb? I don't think the Zilla tropical puts out the required amount of UVB. You should get a 5.0 UVB bulb.

You should also be using a multi vitamin twice a month.
 
I have never replied to a post before that was in disagreement, but I gotta disagree with the idea that one should not handle/interact with a chameleon. I handle mine everyday and for periods of time with no adverse effect. All 4 get handled.
I know some individual chams do not like to be handled, but such a broad statement is just that...too broad.
I am told (mine are panthers, so I am going on veiled owners) that after they reach 6plus months there may be a personality change, possibly due to maturation.
jmo, and my experience
 
My guy used to freak when the mister went off, he's better now (he's also free ranged now so if he wants he can get out of the mist.

It maybe a "teen age" phase, also they can be grumpy near a shed. I'd say back off for a bit and only handle when needed, hand feed if you can. If she goes for that try offering your empty open hand near the entrance of the cage (don't back her in a corner), let her make the first move. If she comes to you take her for some sun or supervised free range time (lager fake trees/ house plants make great temporary free ranges so long as there isn't any small objects that could be ingested)

The first time my panther came to me on his own I had been holding my hand out for several minutes before he got the courage to investigate, then he only put one foot on my finger (I made no attempt to "pick him up") I just held my hand still till my arm couldn't take any more. Then gently moved it away.

Now he regularly comes to me and has only ever opened his mouth (threateningly) when I had to restrain him to give meds.

(it should be noted that he was not shy are "mean" to start with)
My jacksons was very shy to start with, I've done pretty much the same but he has yet to come to me on he's own, he is less shy but still not bold.
 
you can try putting a silkie/hornworm (anything that she LOVES) and put it in the crease of your arm at the elbow and lure her onto your arm. I think that it really depends on the chams personality on whether they like to be handled or not! I had to work at my Levi and just recently can take him out without a towel. He tends to be very "flighty/fidgety" and makes me feel like hes gonna fall! If he was very aggressive about me trying to get him out I probably would not have kept working with him! If you see potential in her then I would just work with her. Give her a healthy amount of treats and try the luring thing.!
 
Some Veilds just get mean..Well more than 1/2 of all adult veilds I have run across have attitude! I have one that wants to bite people! and my other veiled is so sweet she takes veggies out of your fingers. If you want a sweet chameleon thats easy to handle. get a panther:D
 
my veiled is vicious when my hand enters his cage but of i can just reach under him and pet his chin he calms down and walks out of his cage. after that his is puppy-dog tame!
 
What I do is I would take my cham out of his cage, put him on a tree outside and feed him a treat. Then, I would just sit there until he would move around. Then after 10 mins or so, take him inside, let him crawl around on the couch while I watch tv. After the the show would end, I would pick him up and put him back in his cage.

I used to do this or similar routines alot when Sebastian was younger (about 4 to 5 months old)

Now Sebastian is a year and five months and when ever he sees me he comes up to the door and tries to crawl on me @_@
 
oh never "pick them up" either. Just put your hand under their neck and slowly lift. Grabbing them scares them.
 
Thanks everyone for the tips and words of encouragement. It has been a little rough on me also because I care so much about this cham and she has been so sweet all along until recently. I am going to try some of these pointers and not give up on trying.

Does anyone have different luck with attitude if they try before or after feeding time?
 
So this problem is getting worse. Today was a really nice sunny day and I wanted her to get some good rays while they are here. This is how it went down:
I put a medium superworm in my hand and slowly held it in front of her. She looked at it for about 4 minuets then my arm was going to fall off. I put the worm on the screen and she went for it about 2 seconds after I moved my arm.
I then held just my hand in front and below her for 5 minuets again, after waiting about 30. She started to get so pissed she almost fell off her branch trying to go after me.At this point my heart is almost broke.
Why in the span of 1 week does she go from very sweet and nice to scaring the crap out of me?
How much will it hurt if she does get me?
 
If she does actually bite you (most of their lunging is bluff or she might bump your hand with her snout) it will startle you and could break the skin if you pull away suddenly. It won't rip your finger open by any means. If she really tries to bite just let her. Then you'll know and stop worrying about it as much.
 
I am told (mine are panthers, so I am going on veiled owners) that after they reach 6plus months there may be a personality change, possibly due to maturation.
jmo, and my experience

Yes, often once they reach their "teen" age hormones start kicking in and they can get grouchier than normal. A combination of territoriality now that she's settled into her space.

If you want to take her out of the cage you can try coaxing her onto a hand held branch instead of your hand. It might help diffuse her crabbiness once she realizes a trip out of the cage for basking is a good thing.
 
I agree Carlton, the onkown is always worse. I always tell people to fall off their horse so they know what to expect. It doesn't hurt as much as we think it will
I also agree to not pull your hand back, since you are expecting a bite, try to stay quiet or move your hand slightly towards her, she will get more of your hand and have less room to get a good bite
 
So this problem is getting worse. Today was a really nice sunny day and I wanted her to get some good rays while they are here. This is how it went down:
I put a medium superworm in my hand and slowly held it in front of her. She looked at it for about 4 minuets then my arm was going to fall off. I put the worm on the screen and she went for it about 2 seconds after I moved my arm.
I then held just my hand in front and below her for 5 minuets again, after waiting about 30. She started to get so pissed she almost fell off her branch trying to go after me.At this point my heart is almost broke.
Why in the span of 1 week does she go from very sweet and nice to scaring the crap out of me?
How much will it hurt if she does get me?

It doesn't hurt that much. I've been bit by large male veileds and it wasn't that bad. It's not very likely she will even bite. She is mostly trying to scare you away.
 
I was wondering if it was "teenage angsty stuff" but I've only seen comments that this happened with males. I see people suggesting that's the problem. I guess it makes complete sense that females would have similar problems.
 
Thanks everyone again. Today I attempted to see what she really wanted to do. Like a few of you said she did not bite. She was putting on her war face though. LOL. She hissed and lunged and when my finger got close enough she did not bite. I rubbed her neck a little then decided to leave her alone. I will tell you though, she gets so crazy looking my heart was racing. It appears like she could eat my finger off. Thanks all for the advice, and encouragement. At least I know that when I need to move her I can.
Jim
 
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