Has my beloved Karma got MBD?

[lizard120371]

I got him in March as a tiny baby. Set up then was as follows: Wooden 2ft by 2ft viv with glass sliding doors at the front. Thermostat set at 82 degrees at top of viv, lower at bottom. He has a heat lamp and a rainforest uv bulb. Sand substrate, misting 5 mins twice daily, he seems to enjoy me misting him directly. Fed him a diet of crickets,fed on carrot, broccolli and other vegetable matter, and dusted every other day with Nutrobal calcium. He seemed to thrive and soon outgrew this viv.
2 months ago I bought him the same type of viv but aboreal 3ft tall and transferred the existing heat lamp, thermostat and uv bulb. I continued to care for him as detailed above. Things have gradually seemed to go downhill from this point.
The first noticable thing was his colour became dingy and he started to sleep during the day. At this point I wondered if his heat lamp was keeping him awake at night so replaced this with a ceramic bulb that didn't glow at night. This made no difference. He then started to do strange poops. Orange at one end, then white, then solid brown with clear mucas. I wondered if it was the substrate - orange sand, so replaced it with cage carpet which made no difference. During the past week he has started to close his eyes whilst feeding and violently rocks as if drunk. He has become a messy eater and drops bits of the cricket he is chewing on. He now spends most of his time tucked in amongst the fake vegetation half way up his viv. He is now not shooting his tongue out far enough and I am feeding him by hand really close up. Despite all this he has a very strong grip and my inexperienced eyes cannot detect any multiple elbows or knees although his jaw seems more jowly. Am really worried and don't know what to do next. Photos to follow coz I have rambled on so long they wont fit on!

 

[camimom]

Eye problems and sleeping during the day are not necessarily signs of MBD.
Can you post pictures of him , his set up, and the rest of your husbandry please?
just copy and paste the how to ask for help form, and we can go from there.

 

[lizard120371]

Having trouble uploading photos, will get hubby on it tomorrow! Sorry probably really thick but new to this forum stuff, where do I find the how to get help form? Dur!

 

[BocaJan]

What kind of a cham is Karma?

 

[lizard120371]

A Veiled, Yemen.

 

[Carlton]

I got him in March as a tiny baby. Set up then was as follows: Wooden 2ft by 2ft viv with glass sliding doors at the front. Thermostat set at 82 degrees at top of viv, lower at bottom. He has a heat lamp and a rainforest uv bulb. Sand substrate, misting 5 mins twice daily, he seems to enjoy me misting him directly. Fed him a diet of crickets,fed on carrot, broccolli and other vegetable matter, and dusted every other day with Nutrobal calcium. He seemed to thrive and soon outgrew this viv.
2 months ago I bought him the same type of viv but aboreal 3ft tall and transferred the existing heat lamp, thermostat and uv bulb. I continued to care for him as detailed above. Things have gradually seemed to go downhill from this point.
The first noticable thing was his colour became dingy and he started to sleep during the day. At this point I wondered if his heat lamp was keeping him awake at night so replaced this with a ceramic bulb that didn't glow at night. This made no difference. He then started to do strange poops. Orange at one end, then white, then solid brown with clear mucas. I wondered if it was the substrate - orange sand, so replaced it with cage carpet which made no difference. During the past week he has started to close his eyes whilst feeding and violently rocks as if drunk. He has become a messy eater and drops bits of the cricket he is chewing on. He now spends most of his time tucked in amongst the fake vegetation half way up his viv. He is now not shooting his tongue out far enough and I am feeding him by hand really close up. Despite all this he has a very strong grip and my inexperienced eyes cannot detect any multiple elbows or knees although his jaw seems more jowly. Am really worried and don't know what to do next. Photos to follow coz I have rambled on so long they wont fit on!

A few ideas:

1. He could be spending a lot more time out of the effective range of the UV light in his larger cage (I'm not familiar with the brand UV bulb you listed, but a cham needs to get within 18" of a ReptiSun 5.0 to get the benefit), If he isn't getting enough exposure it can mess up his D3/calcium metabolism.

2. The UV bulb is old and needs replacement.

3. Possibly the new larger cage isn't holding humidity as well as the small one did. Orange urates are a sign of dehydration. Dehydrated chams don't eat, can't shoot as well because the mucous glands on the tip of their tongue don't "stick" to prey. Dehydration irritates eyes so they spend time with them closed and rub them a lot.

4. Using the ceramic emitter at night can dry out the cage even more.

5. Broccoli isn't a great gutload as it tends to bind calcium (making it less available) in the diet. Choose other veggies.

 

[BocaJan]

You need to fill out this how to ask for help form.

How to ask for help
Here is some recommended information to include when asking for help in the health clinic forum. By providing this information, you will receive more accurate and beneficial responses. It might not be necessary to answer all these questions, but the more you provide the better. Please remember that even the most knowledgeable person can only guess at what your problem may be. Only an experienced reptile veterinarian who can directly examine your animal can give a true diagnosis of your chameleon's health.


Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.


Pictures are helpful

Chams, especially veileds need cool temps at night. They don't need a heat bulb. A simple 60 watt bulb in a clamp light on the top of your screen cage is all that is needed. A linear UVB bulb is the most effective way to give them UVB's and be sure they are getting calcium w/o D/3 daily, w/D3 2x a month and vitamins 1 or twice a month.

Other than that, please fill out the above form and post some pictures. It sounds like there is a problem some where with how you are caring for Karma and once you have answered the questions there will be a lot of experienced keepers helping you out.

 

[lizard120371]

Species: Yemen, vieled, sex - male.
Handling: He'll climb on my hand when he wants to, I don't force him he does it when he wants to. He has a really strong grip even now.
Feeding: Crickets which are fed on carrots, broccolli, sprouts, curly kale - whatever greens I have in the fridge.
Supplements: Crickets are dusted in Nutrobal every other day.
Watering: Misted twice daily for 5 mins. Every day he drinks the droplets that form on the ceiling of his viv.
Recent droppings: Orange at end, then white then formed brown stool. Surrounded in clear mucus. This is recent, they didn't used to be like that. They were just brown and white - no mucus.
Humidity: Don't measure humitity just mist twice a day - Is this where I am going wrong?
Plants : All fake, fake climbing vine from bottom to top of viv and plently of other fake plants.
Placement: By living room door, reasonably high traffic area, door mostly closed so no draughts, 3ft high viv.
Location, Worcestershire, England.
Problem: As described above.

 

[lizard120371]

Sorry missed a few things:
Cage type, 3/4 wooden, sliding glass doors at the front. 3ft high x 2ft x 2ft.
Lighting: Uvb rainforest, will try to find out strength of this. No longer have the box and can't get the damn thing off to check. Hubby in bed, will get him to look tomorrow. Bulb was new in March 2011. Ceramic darkspot 100w bulb. This is on the thermostat set at 82. Temp approx 72 at bottom of the viv. I put the UV on between 7 and 10 am and off again when he looks like he's asleep, from 9pm til 10pm.

 

[ChameleonNerd]

post a picture.

 

[lizard120371]

Have tried, hubby has promised to do it tomorrow, he's in bed now and I'm useless with computers. He need to reregister with photobucket as he has changed his email address apparently!

 

[lizard120371]

He's asleep now, the UV has been off for a while and his colours look fantastic, u would'nt know anything was wrong with him.

 

[Carlton]

He's asleep now, the UV has been off for a while and his colours look fantastic, u would'nt know anything was wrong with him.

Sleeping color can look bright compared to "awake and calm" or depressed color. It's pretty subjective so hard to tie in to specific health problems.

 

[Carlton]

Watering: Misted twice daily for 5 mins. Every day he drinks the droplets that form on the ceiling of his viv.
Recent droppings: Orange at end, then white then formed brown stool. Surrounded in clear mucus. This is recent, they didn't used to be like that. They were just brown and white - no mucus.
Humidity: Don't measure humitity just mist twice a day - Is this where I am going wrong?
Plants : All fake, fake climbing vine from bottom to top of viv and plently of other fake plants.

You really need to measure the cage humidity. Chances are he's chronically dehydrated based on the stool color, behavior you've noted, no live foliage in the cage, and relatively short misting periods. If he is drinking heavily every time you spray he's usually thirsty. A well-hydrated cham with good reserves may not drink heavily at every misting period.

 

[lizard120371]

Yeah, he looks so nice and healthy now, just wish I knew why I was making him so depressed and poorly when he's awake

 

[lizard120371]

Do I need to get a fogger Charlton? thanks for everybody's help!

 

[Emcee101]

Post a picture! It woul be helpfull!

 

[lizard120371]

Will get hubby to do it tomorrow, I promise!

 

[BocaJan]

He should have a linear UVB bulb on for 12 hours a day along with his basking bulb. I really think you should redo your lighting. Please post pictures of your cage and chameleon.

 

[laurie]

All of you; give this girl a break!! She has said several times that she will have her husband post them tomorrow.

Eye problems and sleeping during the day are not necessarily signs of MBD.
Can you post pictures of him , his set up, and the rest of your husbandry please?
just copy and paste the how to ask for help form, and we can go from there.

You need to fill out this how to ask for help form.

How to ask for help
Here is some recommended information to include when asking for help in the health clinic forum. By providing this information, you will receive more accurate and beneficial responses. It might not be necessary to answer all these questions, but the more you provide the better. Please remember that even the most knowledgeable person can only guess at what your problem may be. Only an experienced reptile veterinarian who can directly examine your animal can give a true diagnosis of your chameleon's health.


Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.


Pictures are helpful

Chams, especially veileds need cool temps at night. They don't need a heat bulb. A simple 60 watt bulb in a clamp light on the top of your screen cage is all that is needed. A linear UVB bulb is the most effective way to give them UVB's and be sure they are getting calcium w/o D/3 daily, w/D3 2x a month and vitamins 1 or twice a month.

Other than that, please fill out the above form and post some pictures. It sounds like there is a problem some where with how you are caring for Karma and once you have answered the questions there will be a lot of experienced keepers helping you out.

post a picture.

Post a picture! It woul be helpfull!

He should have a linear UVB bulb on for 12 hours a day along with his basking bulb. I really think you should redo your lighting. Please post pictures of your cage and chameleon.