He wont drink.

[Curlytails]

I have a veiled chameleon which is dehydrated but super active. He doesnt eat locusts anymore but he eats any type of worm. I mist 4 to 5 times a day and it gets so wet i have to clean up with towels. I have tried to spray a stram on his mouth and he takes just 1 drop. I have tried to use a syringe but he hisses at it. I have showered him many times. I put in a bowl of water as my last resort. He doesnt look unhealthy but his urates are orange or yellow. I do see white urates from time to time indicating that he does drink sometimes but thats 2 in 5 urates. His eyes are slightly sunken but they are always moving and open.

 

[Curlytails]

@timw1 what do you think? Your better at this than i am.

 

[dshuld]

Are you hand misting or do you have an automatic mister?

 

[Curlytails]

Are you hand misting or do you have an automatic mister?

Im hand misting but i am going to get an automatic mister when the pet store orders one in for me. I dont know when that will be. Probably in 2 weeks

 

[dshuld]

Are you spraying directly into the enclosure or through the screen?

 

[Curlytails]

Are you spraying directly into the enclosure or through the screen?

Both. I only spray the mesh to keep humidity up as it evaporates

 

[timw1]

I use a Mistking, you can order one online. Have you tried a drip system? Also, hornworms and silkworms will help hydrate. Don't try to spray into his mouth he may breath the water into his lungs.

 

[Curlytails]

I use a Mistking, you can order one online. Have you tried a drip system? Also, hornworms and silkworms will help hydrate.

I cant get hornworms here theyre illegal.i used silkworms but his urates barely changed.i use a dripper but he doesnt use it. The drip rate is super slow.

 

[Crashbandit05]

I would definitely utilize a dripper as well. You can buy the 'Big Dripper' or smaller version at pet stores or make your own. As simple as poking a hole in the bottom of a container. Or placing ice cubes on top of the enclosure and letting it melt/drip down.

 

[Curlytails]

I would definitely utilize a dripper as well. You can buy the 'Big Dripper' or smaller version at pet stores or make your own. As simple as poking a hole in the bottom of a container. Or placing ice cubes on top of the enclosure and letting it melt/drip down.

I already made a dripper. He doesnt use it at all

 

[jajeanpierre]

I have a veiled chameleon which is dehydrated but super active. He doesnt eat locusts anymore but he eats any type of worm. I mist 4 to 5 times a day and it gets so wet i have to clean up with towels. I have tried to spray a stram on his mouth and he takes just 1 drop. I have tried to use a syringe but he hisses at it. I have showered him many times. I put in a bowl of water as my last resort. He doesnt look unhealthy but his urates are orange or yellow. I do see white urates from time to time indicating that he does drink sometimes but thats 2 in 5 urates. His eyes are slightly sunken but they are always moving and open.

There can be a million reasons for what you are seeing.

First off, congratulations for recognizing all is not well with your little guy. Most people come for help when the chameleon is close to death and they still don't see it.

Okay, first things first: orange or yellow urates are not good. That means the urate is concentrated. Some chameleons don't pass urates often enough for the urate to start to get dehydrated. I wouldn't like to see it, but that kind of an issue might not be a problem. Is just one end of the urate dark colored or is the whole urate dark?

Even if you have dark on one side and white on the other, I would just assume he is dehydrated and treat him as such. A dehydrated animal won't eat, so that might be your biggest problem.

I honestly believe you cannot hydrate a chameleon properly, even a panther or a veiled, without a proper automatic misting system. Much of their hydration in the wild is from breathing in the dew as it falls at night or if they are from high altitudes from breathing in the fog from the clouds as they drop down low at night. Invest in a decent misting system that won't break if it runs dry (which it will!). I love MistKing and their smallest system is about $130.

A hand mister just doesn't mist finely enough to give you that foggy mist that a MistKing nozzle will. In general they don't like being hit with water. When it rains, most chameleons retreat and hide under cover even my quads and graciliors that come from a place that gets 400 inches of rain a year. Mine will tolerate the foggy mist from the misters but only if they are a bit dry.

In the meantime, you can buy one of those pressurized misters from the hardware store, pump it up and mist with a fog. You need to mist for minutes, not just squirt and get everything wet. He needs to breathe in the fog. Minutes. That's why a good automatic mister is important because who has time for that?

Water and drainage is always going to be a problem with chameleons if you are giving them enough water. It just is. Set up some kind of drainage system. I use DragonStrand cages and their drainage trays. DragonStrand are now making odd sized drainage pans to fit cages they don't make. They are expensive, delivery takes longer than expected but they are worth the wait.

So, first you need to deal with hydration. Consider him severely dehydrated. You can put the whole cage in a shower and bounce a lukewarm shower off the shower wall so the mist/fog envelopes the cage. Do that for 20 minutes a few times a day. It is very wasteful of water though.

You can also put the whole cage outside, weather permitting, and run those patio misters around the cage. I think Arctic Cove makes them--they are just a 1/4 inch line attaching to the hose with misters spread along the line. That's what I use around my outdoor cages.

There can be a lot of other serious reasons he could be the way he is, but he is dehydrated and getting that under control will give him the resources for him to solve any other health issue.

Be aware that chronic low grade dehydration is a major cause of kidney failure in captive chameleons. It is something not to be ignored. Also, an animal with end stage kidney failure does not have yellow/orange urates--they can be snowy white and still be dying of kidney failure caused by one severe episode of dehydration years previous (such as at import).

 

[timw1]

This is a copy/paste from Dave Weldon. Read this, it is good stuff.

Some of my rambling thoughts about chameleon hydration…

Being somewhat of an ARPA (Anal Retentive Painfully Analytic), I often think, re-think and re-re-think about the decisions and choices I’ve made regarding chameleon husbandry (and everything else in life). Chameleon hydration is, of course, one of those topics that I have re-hashed over and over in my mind. Am I supplying too much water leading to an unforeseen detriment to the chameleon or is “excessive” misting merely insuring maximum hydration? Most often, keepers are able to supply water via some mechanism that allows their chameleon to not only survive but to thrive. Those whose chameleons merely survived or worse yet, died of suboptimal hydration or dehydration, may have been sadly misinformed that either a couple of quick squirts a day of water on a plastic plant was enough or that only a water bowl or a waterfall was needed as an effective means of supplying water. There will always be the odd chameleon reported here and there that did learn to survive just using a water bowl as a sole source for water but those occurrences are not the norm. For every chameleon that figured out drinking from a bowl, hundreds of others didn’t and died.

Working it backwards (or is this really forwards?), a chameleon needs a source of drinking water to maintain proper hydration. The water needs to be supplied in such a way and for long enough as to be identifiable by the chameleon as drinkable water to potentially trigger a drinking response. Automated misting, hand misting, drippers, humidifiers, etc. all have their pluses and minuses towards fulfilling a chameleon’s hydration requirements. All chameleon species’ hydration requirements are not the same, so for my purposes here let’s talk about a generalized grouping of Panthers and Veileds. Environmental/body temperature along with humidity levels and water intake are probably the most dominate variables (not to let juicy hornworms and silkworms go unacknowledged) in the hydration equation. Simply put, hotter and drier means more water intake is required to balance the equation. If we fill-in the variables with, for example, 90F basking, 70F ambient, 40% humidity and daily consumption of water, this will result in a hydrated chameleon thus balancing the equation. This probably isn’t the best way of describing hydration but it does bring into the equation the issue of humidity. Even though many panther locales have high humidity it isn’t necessary to duplicate that high humidity (>70%). In Dr. Ferguson’s panther book he comments that:“Despite the high humidity of their habitat, panther chameleons do not seem to require this in captive environments as long as they have opportunity to drink daily. We have observed no low-humidity problems, such as shedding difficulties, with indoor humidity of 40 to 50%. At that humidity, transfer of airborne diseases to inhabitants of adjacent cages and skin infections have been minimal in our laboratory over the last decade.”Opposite of overly humid conditions is what many keepers face in dry winter and desert conditions where the humidity may drop to single digit levels if not artificially boosted. A chameleon’s water intake may increase in low humidity environments in an attempt to compensate for higher water losses. At some point the equation can’t be balanced by the chameleon alone and we need to intercede by artificially increasing the humidity using, most often, a humidifier or through misting.

Simple cup/bottle drippers, as a means of supplying drinking water, have been successfully used probably as long as chameleons have been kept in captivity. Most chameleons eventually recognize a dripper’s water as a drinkable source especially if the drops are cascading down nearby leaves. The movement of the leaves and the drops themselves are usually enough to trigger a drinking response. The combination of a dripper and simple hand misting (5-10-15-20 minutes) can have a greater effect than either alone at triggering a drinking response. The presence of large water droplets “misted” combined with a dripper not only more effectively triggers a drinking response but then follows it up with the longer term availability of the dripper’s water. The addition of misting has the benefit of increasing the humidity in low humidity conditions. The downside of this method is that someone needs to be there to do the hand-misting and dripper refilling. Excess water will need to be dealt with by some means of collection and disposal.

An automated misting system offers the added benefit of a long term (many days), unattended supply of drinking water and an increase in humidity levels. If a nozzle and pump are selected that create a misty-drippy effect then it can be used as effectively as the dripper/hand mister in the previous example. An ultra-fine mist alone is not as effective at chameleon hydration as a “mist” that combines larger droplets with the some lesser amount of fine mist. Also, a long-term, automated, single source dripper alone may not be as effective as a combination of automated dripping and fine misting.

In summary, although there are other effective methods for maintaining chameleon hydration, many keepers have found that using an automated misting system for 5-15-20 minutes twice a day has provided their chameleon with a source of clean, inviting drinking water thus maintaining a peak hydration level has effectively eliminated most concerns of sub-optimal hydration. Note also that it is not necessary to have an automated system that mists the entire enclosure. A dry zone may be preferred by the chameleon especially if there is little interest/need in hydration at that point in time. Also, there is room for improvement. Better methods of providing heated water as well as nozzles and pumps that do a better job of creating a combination of some mist and mostly raindrops may be appreciated by our kept chameleons.

===========================


I'll add that it is certainly not mandatory to have an automated system to keep a chameleon fully hydrated (but it sure seems to be if you are not around during the day ). I think that the typical hand, pump-up misting bottle loaded with 100-110F warmed water and the nozzle adjusted to make a misty-splattery-drippy-rainy delivery of water for many minutes, off and on, will usually eventually work to trigger a chameleon's drinking response. It may not work the very first day or even the 2nd, 3rd or 4th but it usually eventually triggers drinking. He may try to run away from the misting. Don't overly stress him. Give it a minute between trying different approaches. I suggest wetting things down, wait a minute to see what happens. Then sneak-up on the chameleon with a little wetting of the tail, back-off, wet some more farther up the tail and so-on until you are basically giving the chameleon a light shower almost continuously for many minutes. He may begin drinking during this process or not. Experiment with various methods and see if you can find something that works for your chameleon.

 

[Curlytails]

S

There can be a million reasons for what you are seeing.

First off, congratulations for recognizing all is not well with your little guy. Most people come for help when the chameleon is close to death and they still don't see it.

Okay, first things first: orange or yellow urates are not good. That means the urate is concentrated. Some chameleons don't pass urates often enough for the urate to start to get dehydrated. I wouldn't like to see it, but that kind of an issue might not be a problem. Is just one end of the urate dark colored or is the whole urate dark?

Even if you have dark on one side and white on the other, I would just assume he is dehydrated and treat him as such. A dehydrated animal won't eat, so that might be your biggest problem.

I honestly believe you cannot hydrate a chameleon properly, even a panther or a veiled, without a proper automatic misting system. Much of their hydration in the wild is from breathing in the dew as it falls at night or if they are from high altitudes from breathing in the fog from the clouds as they drop down low at night. Invest in a decent misting system that won't break if it runs dry (which it will!). I love MistKing and their smallest system is about $130.

A hand mister just doesn't mist finely enough to give you that foggy mist that a MistKing nozzle will. In general they don't like being hit with water. When it rains, most chameleons retreat and hide under cover even my quads and graciliors that come from a place that gets 400 inches of rain a year. Mine will tolerate the foggy mist from the misters but only if they are a bit dry.

In the meantime, you can buy one of those pressurized misters from the hardware store, pump it up and mist with a fog. You need to mist for minutes, not just squirt and get everything wet. He needs to breathe in the fog. Minutes. That's why a good automatic mister is important because who has time for that?

Water and drainage is always going to be a problem with chameleons if you are giving them enough water. It just is. Set up some kind of drainage system. I use DragonStrand cages and their drainage trays. DragonStrand are now making odd sized drainage pans to fit cages they don't make. They are expensive, delivery takes longer than expected but they are worth the wait.

So, first you need to deal with hydration. Consider him severely dehydrated. You can put the whole cage in a shower and bounce a lukewarm shower off the shower wall so the mist/fog envelopes the cage. Do that for 20 minutes a few times a day. It is very wasteful of water though.

You can also put the whole cage outside, weather permitting, and run those patio misters around the cage. I think Arctic Cove makes them--they are just a 1/4 inch line attaching to the hose with misters spread along the line. That's what I use around my outdoor cages.

There can be a lot of other serious reasons he could be the way he is, but he is dehydrated and getting that under control will give him the resources for him to solve any other health issue.

Be aware that chronic low grade dehydration is a major cause of kidney failure in captive chameleons. It is something not to be ignored. Also, an animal with end stage kidney failure does not have yellow/orange urates--they can be snowy white and still be dying of kidney failure caused by one severe episode of dehydration years previous (such as at import).

So should i just mist until the whole bottle finishes?

 

[dshuld]

Gotcha, try spraying through the top of the enclosure through the screen. It should create a rain drop type of effect and may trigger his drinking desire a little more. I've actually started using soaker hose connected to my pumps because my chams seem to like it better then being misted with mist heads.

 

[Curlytails]

Gotcha, try spraying through the top of the enclosure through the screen. It should create a rain drop type of effect and may trigger his drinking desire a little more. I've actually started using soaker hose connected to my pumps because my chams seem to like it better then being misted with mist heads.

I misted the hell out of the enclosure. Half a litre of water. I made it foggy like you guys said and he opened is mouth a couple of times. Any other tips will be appreciated

 

[Curlytails]

I misted the hell out of the enclosure. Half a litre of water. I made it foggy like you guys said and he opened is mouth a couple of times. Any other tips will be appreciated

He still isnt drinking i misted another bottle full

 

[JacksJill]

You are on the right track. It may take a couple of days for him to get with the program. You may find he has times of day he prefers to drink.
Another thing to consider are his temperatures and how often he is pooping and dropping urates. If his digestion is slow because of low temperatures he will have the urates in him longer and that will make them turn color and they will have what looks like chunks of orange. If that is the case you will still see a portion of white in each urate that is the freshest part.

 

[Curlytails]

Anyone? I need help.

 

[Curlytails]

You are on the right track. It may take a couple of days for him to get with the program. You may find he has times of day he prefers to drink.
Another thing to consider are his temperatures and how often he is pooping and dropping urates. If his digestion is slow because of low temperatures he will have the urates in him longer and that will make them turn color and they will have what looks like chunks of orange. If that is the case you will still see a portion of white in each urate that is the freshest part.

No white at all. Yellow or orange. I have seen plain white a couple of times
I want to make sure he is healthy. Is it possible that he is suicidal?

 

[JacksJill]

Ha! No, not suicidal. He just isn't brave enough to drink or isn't recognizing the water source. I had a similar problem with one of mine that would only drink after a long drenching. I give her extra long mistings to get her going. She hides under a leaf but eventually drinks any way. Now I just do it a couple times a week and her urates have stayed white.