Help! Chameleon eating a lot of dead leaves

[Bowieluna]

I am concerned because I have not seen him eat insects in a while (maybe I just haven’t seen it), yet Every time he gets the chance he eats sooo many dead leaves. He’ll eat one the size of his body no problem. I don’t stop him because I’m not sure if it’s similar to dogs eating grass or not. I recently listened to a podcast with Bill strand and some lovely British guest about bio-active enclosures. The guest mentions that in the wild chameleons will eat leaves, rocks, dirt, things that get caught on bugs, etc. quite commonly in the wild, and they actually get extra minerals & nutrients from those things. So I’ve been letting him eat dead leaves, but it does feel like a lot. And recently he tried eating small River rocks that were almost the size of his head that I used to cover the potted plants. I thought they were quite large, and I stopped him from eating them even though he tried several times, and quickly changed them out. I made sure he got his proper dose of dusted vitamins and calcium. I give him calcium without d3 just about every day, and vitamins with d3 once every other week. Am I not giving him enough vitamins? I feel like I have the proper uvb with the long 24’’ fluorescent bulbs

 

[Beman]

I am concerned because I have not seen him eat insects in a while (maybe I just haven’t seen it), yet Every time he gets the chance he eats sooo many dead leaves. He’ll eat one the size of his body no problem. I don’t stop him because I’m not sure if it’s similar to dogs eating grass or not. I recently listened to a podcast with Bill strand and some lovely British guest about bio-active enclosures. The guest mentions that in the wild chameleons will eat leaves, rocks, dirt, things that get caught on bugs, etc. quite commonly in the wild, and they actually get extra minerals & nutrients from those things. So I’ve been letting him eat dead leaves, but it does feel like a lot. And recently he tried eating small River rocks that were almost the size of his head that I used to cover the potted plants. I thought they were quite large, and I stopped him from eating them even though he tried several times, and quickly changed them out. I made sure he got his proper dose of dusted vitamins and calcium. I give him calcium without d3 just about every day, and vitamins with d3 once every other week. Am I not giving him enough vitamins? I feel like I have the proper uvb with the long 24’’ fluorescent bulbs

What supplements specifically are you using? And what specific UVB are you using? What feeders do you offer him? Panthers do not typically go for the leaves and dirt...

I would get larger rocks to cover the smaller ones he is going after. That is a big risk if he manages to get one of those.

With the leaves just remove the dead ones. If you do not have bio active then there is no need to have leaves on the bottom.

 

[Kaizen]

I am concerned because I have not seen him eat insects in a while (maybe I just haven’t seen it), yet Every time he gets the chance he eats sooo many dead leaves. He’ll eat one the size of his body no problem. I don’t stop him because I’m not sure if it’s similar to dogs eating grass or not. I recently listened to a podcast with Bill strand and some lovely British guest about bio-active enclosures. The guest mentions that in the wild chameleons will eat leaves, rocks, dirt, things that get caught on bugs, etc. quite commonly in the wild, and they actually get extra minerals & nutrients from those things. So I’ve been letting him eat dead leaves, but it does feel like a lot. And recently he tried eating small River rocks that were almost the size of his head that I used to cover the potted plants. I thought they were quite large, and I stopped him from eating them even though he tried several times, and quickly changed them out. I made sure he got his proper dose of dusted vitamins and calcium. I give him calcium without d3 just about every day, and vitamins with d3 once every other week. Am I not giving him enough vitamins? I feel like I have the proper uvb with the long 24’’ fluorescent bulbs

Wow, a panther eating leaves, eh? Usually that’s a veiled thing. Anyways, there are a million reasons for this behavior. Usually panthers don’t indulge, so my first thought is that you have a healthy population of bugs in your potted plants; eg isopods, roaches, etc. He might be trying to tag them, and getting leaves. However, it would be very helpful if you filled out the filling form:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

 

[Bowieluna]

Your Chameleon - Panther, male, 5 months, has been in my care since August 29th.

• Handling - A few times a week. He has an indoor free range and a outdoor free range. I only handle him for a few minutes to transport him to and from his cage.
• Feeding - He is currently eating super worms, crickets, wax worms, & horn worms. They are gut loaded on oatmeal, honey, spirulina, carrots potatoes, apples, and whatever veggies & leafy greens I have on hand, (today was Brussels sprout leaves).
• Supplements - I use zoomed repti calcium without D3 every day except when I dust with vitamins. And I use zoomed reptivite with d3 every once other week.
• Watering - I only catch him drinking in the morning, although I offer him water several times a day. I mist by hand 2 or 3 times a day and use a water bottle with a hole in it as a dripper. I fill that up in the morning at 7am and again in the evening and sometimes in the afternoon as well. I also have a “repti-rain” but it seems to be leaking everywhere at the moment, and I’ve found his drip bottle to be more effective.
• Fecal Description - Brown and white. He never seems to be dehydrated. He’s never been tested for parasites.
• History - I haven’t had him very long.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - he has a medium size reptibreeze, which I already know is too small, and I will be ordering him the dragon strand atrium when it’s available in November.
• Lighting - Thrive 15 watt tropical 18” UVB bulb, as well as a basking bulb. The uvb is on from 7am-7pm, and the basking bulb is on from 7am-5pm.
• Temperature - Ambient temp of 72-75, & basking temp of about 82-85 (he’s still pretty young). I use a digital thermometer. At night it gets to be about 70.
• Humidity - Around 75-80, I use a digital hygrometer.
• Plants - Yes, Pothos, ficus, wandering Jews, & crotons are in the cage, with many many more plants in his free range areas.
• Placement - Cage is about 3 ft off the floor in front of a window. It’s still warm weather in the mid 80s where I live. I’ll also open the window whenever the weather is nice. I’ll move him away from the window once it cools down.
• Location - Southern California desert area

 

[Bowieluna]

Your Chameleon - Panther, male, 5 months, has been in my care since August 29th.

• Handling - A few times a week. He has an indoor free range and a outdoor free range. I only handle him for a few minutes to transport him to and from his cage.
• Feeding - He is currently eating super worms, crickets, wax worms, & horn worms. They are gut loaded on oatmeal, honey, spirulina, carrots potatoes, apples, and whatever veggies & leafy greens I have on hand, (today was Brussels sprout leaves).
• Supplements - I use zoomed repti calcium without D3 every day except when I dust with vitamins. And I use zoomed reptivite with d3 every once other week.
• Watering - I only catch him drinking in the morning, although I offer him water several times a day. I mist by hand 2 or 3 times a day and use a water bottle with a hole in it as a dripper. I fill that up in the morning at 7am and again in the evening and sometimes in the afternoon as well. I also have a “repti-rain” but it seems to be leaking everywhere at the moment, and I’ve found his drip bottle to be more effective.
• Fecal Description - Brown and white. He never seems to be dehydrated. He’s never been tested for parasites.
• History - I haven’t had him very long.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - he has a medium size reptibreeze, which I already know is too small, and I will be ordering him the dragon strand atrium when it’s available in November.
• Lighting - Thrive 15 watt tropical 18” UVB bulb, as well as a basking bulb. The uvb is on from 7am-7pm, and the basking bulb is on from 7am-5pm.
• Temperature - Ambient temp of 72-75, & basking temp of about 82-85 (he’s still pretty young). I use a digital thermometer. At night it gets to be about 70.
• Humidity - Around 75-80, I use a digital hygrometer.
• Plants - Yes, Pothos, ficus, wandering Jews, & crotons are in the cage, with many many more plants in his free range areas.
• Placement - Cage is about 3 ft off the floor in front of a window. It’s still warm weather in the mid 80s where I live. I’ll also open the window whenever the weather is nice. I’ll move him away from the window once it cools down.
• Location - Southern California desert area
• 
  

• What supplements specifically are you using? And what specific UVB are you using? What feeders do you offer him? Panthers do not typically go for the leaves and dirt...
  
  I would get larger rocks to cover the smaller ones he is going after. That is a big risk if he manages to get one of those.
  
  With the leaves just remove the dead ones. If you do not have bio active then there is no need to have leaves on the bottom.

  I use Zoomed Repti calcium without D3 everyday except when I use vitamins, and I use zoomed reptivite with D3 every other week. I use the “thrive” 15 watt 18” uvb. I included pictures in my last post as well.
  
  
• Yes he does try to eat dirt, pieces of wood & bark, rocks, as well as the dead leaves. I’ve also seen bites taken out of the live Pothos in his enclose, not sure if it was the insects or him. I’ve only seen him eat the dead leaves, and he does it every time he sees one.
  
  
• I do my best to remove all dead leaves and rocks from his enclosure, but when I let him free range I will think I got them all, and then all of a sudden I’ll hear the loud crunching of a crispy dead leaf and I’ll know that he got one. I don’t take it away or discourage it because I’m not sure if he’s getting some kind of nutrient I’m not providing. Also, whenever he sees one he goes to it fast and with focus like it’s a bug.
  
  
• I’ve done lots of research on chams and have never heard of this behavior before. I’ve definitely heard of veilds munching on live leaves, but panthers eating dead ones?
  
  
• He’s tried to eat plastic vines & leaves too, so I removed all plastic from his enclosure once I saw him doing that.
  
  
• Ohh and this last photo is of him eating a leaf, but below are the rocks he was trying to eat right after that. Huge right? I blocked him from eating the rocks, and removed them, but I was shocked at that behavior.

 

[Bowieluna]

Wow, a panther eating leaves, eh? Usually that’s a veiled thing. Anyways, there are a million reasons for this behavior. Usually panthers don’t indulge, so my first thought is that you have a healthy population of bugs in your potted plants; eg isopods, roaches, etc. He might be trying to tag them, and getting leaves.

Actually I don’t have any isopods or springtails. I let some crickets free sometimes but that’s it. Just organic potting soil, lots of live plants, & branches.

 

[Kaizen]

Your Chameleon - Panther, male, 5 months, has been in my care since August 29th.

• Handling - A few times a week. He has an indoor free range and a outdoor free range. I only handle him for a few minutes to transport him to and from his cage.
• Feeding - He is currently eating super worms, crickets, wax worms, & horn worms. They are gut loaded on oatmeal, honey, spirulina, carrots potatoes, apples, and whatever veggies & leafy greens I have on hand, (today was Brussels sprout leaves).
• Supplements - I use zoomed repti calcium without D3 every day except when I dust with vitamins. And I use zoomed reptivite with d3 every once other week.
• Watering - I only catch him drinking in the morning, although I offer him water several times a day. I mist by hand 2 or 3 times a day and use a water bottle with a hole in it as a dripper. I fill that up in the morning at 7am and again in the evening and sometimes in the afternoon as well. I also have a “repti-rain” but it seems to be leaking everywhere at the moment, and I’ve found his drip bottle to be more effective.
• Fecal Description - Brown and white. He never seems to be dehydrated. He’s never been tested for parasites.
• History - I haven’t had him very long.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - he has a medium size reptibreeze, which I already know is too small, and I will be ordering him the dragon strand atrium when it’s available in November.
• Lighting - Thrive 15 watt tropical 18” UVB bulb, as well as a basking bulb. The uvb is on from 7am-7pm, and the basking bulb is on from 7am-5pm.This is a t8 bulb. It can be made work, but it is not ideal unless you have a solar meter to help measure your uvi levels. A similar length t5 bulb and fixture is preferred.
• Temperature - Ambient temp of 72-75, & basking temp of about 82-85 (he’s still pretty young). I use a digital thermometer. At night it gets to be about 70.
• Humidity - Around 75-80, I use a digital hygrometer. This is his humidity all the time? His daytime humidity should drop below 50%, and his nightime should approach 100%
• Plants - Yes, Pothos, ficus, wandering Jews, & crotons are in the cage, with many many more plants in his free range areas.
• Placement - Cage is about 3 ft off the floor in front of a window. It’s still warm weather in the mid 80s where I live. I’ll also open the window whenever the weather is nice. I’ll move him away from the window once it cools down.
• Location - Southern California desert area
• 
  
• 
  I use Zoomed Repti calcium without D3 everyday except when I use vitamins, and I use zoomed reptivite with D3 every other week. I use the “thrive” 15 watt 18” uvb. I included pictures in my last post as well.
  
  
• Yes he does try to eat dirt, pieces of wood & bark, rocks, as well as the dead leaves. I’ve also seen bites taken out of the live Pothos in his enclose, not sure if it was the insects or him. I’ve only seen him eat the dead leaves, and he does it every time he sees one.
  
  
• I do my best to remove all dead leaves and rocks from his enclosure, but when I let him free range I will think I got them all, and then all of a sudden I’ll hear the loud crunching of a crispy dead leaf and I’ll know that he got one. I don’t take it away or discourage it because I’m not sure if he’s getting some kind of nutrient I’m not providing. Also, whenever he sees one he goes to it fast and with focus like it’s a bug.
  
  
• I’ve done lots of research on chams and have never heard of this behavior before. I’ve definitely heard of veilds munching on live leaves, but panthers eating dead ones?
  
  
• He’s tried to eat plastic vines & leaves too, so I removed all plastic from his enclosure once I saw him doing that.
  
  
• Ohh and this last photo is of him eating a leaf, but below are the rocks he was trying to eat right after that. Huge right? I blocked him from eating the rocks, and removed them, but I was shocked at that behavior.
  

So, I’m kind of baffled by this behavior too. Dead leaves, rocks, etc? I hope others can chime in here, because I don’t know. Besides your uvb and humidity changes, your husbandry looks ok. In any case, nothing in your husbandry would explain this behavior.

 

[jamest0o0]

What supplements specifically are you using? And what specific UVB are you using? What feeders do you offer him? Panthers do not typically go for the leaves and dirt...

I would get larger rocks to cover the smaller ones he is going after. That is a big risk if he manages to get one of those.

With the leaves just remove the dead ones. If you do not have bio active then there is no need to have leaves on the bottom.

Nope, actually this is pretty common with panthers. I've witnessed all of mine, and my Parsons, go for dead leaves at one point or another. Usually when they were younger(though my Parsons will still go to the ground outside and shoot dirt/leaves, I've seen a friends do this too).

My guess is it is an instinct they have leftover from the wild, whether it be for fiber, minerals, etc.

Oddly, I've never seen them touch live plant leaves, only dead.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

I'm wondering if they may be mistaking dead leaves & pebbles for bugs, and once they're in the mouth continue the eating response to conclusion. There's a term for this that escapes me ATM.

 

[Beman]

Nope, actually this is pretty common with panthers. I've witnessed all of mine, and my Parsons, go for dead leaves at one point or another. Usually when they were younger(though my Parsons will still go to the ground outside and shoot dirt/leaves, I've seen a friends do this too).

My guess is it is an instinct they have leftover from the wild, whether it be for fiber, minerals, etc.

Oddly, I've never seen them touch live plant leaves, only dead.

Good to know. Thank you.

 

[jamest0o0]

Good to know. Thank you.

You're welcome

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

I'm wondering if they may be mistaking dead leaves & pebbles for bugs, and once they're in the mouth continue the eating response to conclusion. There's a term for this that escapes me ATM.

Found it... Fixed action pattern

 

[kinyonga]

Has your chameleon been tested for parasites?

 

[CasqueAbove]

I think they do get confused by the color maybe. My male does not eat plants, but will eat dead bloom or yellowed leaves.

 

[rlschwer]

My male panther went through a phase of doing that too! I also got the advice that he may have a vitamin/mineral deficiency, though my supplements were supposedly correct. I ended up giving him a dish of vitamin/mineral dust mixed with coco coir; he takes the occasional mouthful of that, but much less frequently now. Your have to keep an eye on him for edema and such in case he decided to go overboard, though