HELP! Chameleon seems sick!

V

Vitor Rocha

New Member
Hey Guys,

I bought a male veiled about a week ago and unfortunately it seems to have gotten sick. Its about a month old and I got it off a website called First Choice Reptiles which i DO NOT recommend. Worst service ever. Anyways, when I first got him, he was moving a lot in his encloser and exploring everything until 10/11 oclock or so when he decided to go to sleep. The next morning I laid a couple of butterworms down, misted the place up, turned on both UVB and heat lights and went to school. Later that day when I returned home he was still moving but not as much. Probably just getting some heat. As the days when on he started moving less and less and now he got to a point where he barely moves and his eyes are completely shut. Even when he moves his eyes won't open. I don't think he has been eating or drinking either and I'm desperate here. I feel like hes on the verge of dying. His enclose is a 16x16x20 and he has plenty of room, branches and leafs to walk around.

I went out tonight (6:00pm-7:30pm) to 3 different places but none of them could take a look at him. Tomorrow I'm seeing some more vets.
 
I have also been feeding him crickets and I just took a look at his legs 5 minutes ago and I don't think its MBD. They look fine.
 
Can you post photos of the chameleon and his cage please?
What is the temperature in the basking area of the cage? The rest of the cage?
How do you water him and how often?
What lights are you using on the cage?
 
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I am not an expert, but my suspicion is his eye's. But we need more info.


Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
 
How big are the feeders you are using. If it is a month old cham the feeders gotta be tiny. IMO they shouldn't even be sold that young.
 
Temperature on the spot closest to the light is around 90F.

I water him once in the morning and once in the afternoon. I spray a lot of water on the leafs and some on the branches. Tonight, I read on a thread that he might he dehydrated so I gave him water for quite some time tonight and I saw him drink a lot for the first time. And by first time I mean ever. I've never seen him drink, but have seen him eat.

I'm using a 75w heat light and 25w UVB.

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https://plus.google.com/10895321718...6072844096762987234&oid=108953217182788316409

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Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled, male, between 1 and 2 months. It has been in my care for about a week now.
Handling - About 3 days ago I started handling for 10 minutes or so a day, so he can get used to me.
Feeding - I feed him about 4-5 crickets a day. I do it in the morning and sometimes a I give a little more in the night, but recently I've been just putting them inside the cage and letting him chase them.I'm not gut-loading them.
Supplements - I made a recent purchase of 25 crickets from PetSmart and they were all dusted.
Watering - I use a spray bottle to water/mist him. I do it in the morning and in the night for about 30 seconds or so. I saw him drink for the first time tonight.
Fecal Description - His feces look normal. Black/brown-ish with with top. Tonight though they looked a bit liquidy but not completely. He has not been tested
History - He was bought online from First Choice Reptiles and it took him 4 days to get to my place even though I paid for overnight shipping. Horrible service.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Screen. 16x16x20
Lighting - 1 light is All Living Things (Heat) and the other is Zod Med (UVB). I turn both light around 9:15am when I leave for classes and turn them off around the same time at night.
Temperature - Range of temperature is between 80 and 90. During the night I would say it goes down to room temperature so around 73F. I use a thermometer to measure these temps.
Humidity - I don't know what the humidity levels are. I just try to keep the encloser as humid as possible by misting it.
Plants - No live plants.
Placement - Located on top of my drawers. Kinda next to my door but I'm the only one who comes inside my room. The top of the encloser is just about where the top of my head is and I'm 5'8''.
Location - I am in Lubbock,TX.
 
Are his eyes sunken? What about his casque? Those are both signs of dehydration that should be pretty easy to notice.

If you're only misting him twice daily for 30 seconds each and you have no hygrometer he's probably not getting enough water. Do you have a dripper on his cage so that he has constant access to water if he wants it? If you don't feel like buying one right now poking a hole in a plastic water bottle with a thumb tack will work.

Pictures would be helpful if you can get them without disturbing him too much. I wouldn't try to handle him if he's already not doing well. You're definitely going to need a hygrometer.

You'll want to start gutloading your food, but you wouldn't be seeing that sort of decline in health after only a week simply because you aren't gutloading. If you intend to keep buying crickets from petsmart and having them dust them for you it may also be helpful to ask them what they are dusting with. I know my local petsmart dusts them with calcium + D3 which could be detrimental to his health in the long term, probably shouldn't have that much D3 and should definitely have a multivitamin dust on some feedings.

Hopefully someone can help you pinpoint exactly what's going on with him, but pictures would definitely help. If you're having a hard time finding a vet that deals with reptiles you can try veterinarians.com and do a search for exotic animal vets in your area, though you should be aware that just because a vet offers exotic animal services does not necessarily mean they have a lot of experience dealing with them.

You'll also want some more vines and such in there so he can move around and find a place where he's comfortable in there.
Let us know how he's doing!
 
His eyes seem normal and he is starting to shed around he back legs and tail area. His body looks normal but his belly might be looking dry? Idk.

I think I'll go to PetSmart tomorrow and buy those things along with some more crickets.
 
Vitor Rocha said:
His eyes seem normal and he is starting to shed around he back legs and tail area. His body looks normal but his belly might be looking dry? Idk.

I think I'll go to PetSmart tomorrow and buy those things along with some more crickets.
Click to expand...

If you're planning on buying a hygrometer tomorrow this works well and is relatively inexpensive;
http://www.petsmart.com/reptile/hum...d36-5195367/cat-36-catid-500012?_t=pfm=search

You'll need to stop somewhere and get an LR44 battery for it though. They're with the watch batteries.

Somebody else may be able to help you out more, but I'd say at least part of your problem is the watering schedule. That doesn't explain why he would be sitting around with his eyes closed all the time though, unless he simply doesn't feel like doing anything because he's thirsty. You'll probably want to remove that substrate as well, he may try to grab a cricket and accidentally eat some of it and get impacted.

What color is his urate?
 
I can only see the picture of the cage, the rest don't load. Can you please post clear close-up pictures of him?

There are a number of things you need to fix based on the information provided. If I had to guess about his current condition, I think either vitamin deficiency or an infection is most likely. Vitamin deficiencies can be fixed by proper supplementation, but infections require a vet for antibiotics. Does he ever open his mouth, make popping sounds, have excess mucous, or hold his head up?

Since they can go downhill fast at that age, I would recommend you take him to a vet that specializes in chameleons. The following links may help you in finding one:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/area-area-country-vet-list-32880/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/veterinarian-resources-67/

Additionally, you will want to correct the things listed below, in order of importance:

  • Temperature: For his age, the basking spot should be about 85F and not go above.
  • Supplements: You need to dust the feeder insects with calcium each feeding, calcium with D3 twice a month, and multivitamin twice a month. This is especially critical at his age since he is growing.
  • Cage: Remove the substrate. He could accidentally or intentionally swallow it, and it can build up mold/bacteria. Add many more branches and vines so he has access to all areas of the cage. Add a lot more foliage so he has plenty of places to hide and feel safe.
  • Handling: I would not handle him at all for the first week. After he settles in you can try to get him used to you by hand feeding insects. Don't pick him up if he doesn't come to you.
  • Watering: I agree with the other poster that if you are only hand misting twice a day for 30 seconds you should also add a dripper. Either make one yourself or buy a pre-made one.

One month old is younger than they should be sold, and the care is much more involved because they are a lot more fragile. I wish you the best and I hope you are able to make the changes and find a vet. You can also reference the following caresheet for more info:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/
 
It looks like you re-posted the pictures while I was writing that post :)

Based on those pictures, he doesn't look particularly dehydrated. It also does not really look like an eye infection because his eyes don't seem to have any crust and are not puffed up. My guess would be either the UVB is too strong, or he has a vitamin A deficiency. Did he start with closing only one of his eyes and then both?

See post #6 in the thread below for information about vitamin A deficiency:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/cham-keeps-closing-one-his-eyes-66576/

You could try turning off the UVB for a day or two to see if he will open his eyes. If he does then the bulb may be too strong.

I would still take him to a vet as soon as possible since they are very fragile at that age.
 
I edited my previous post because I was forgetting to mention that too strong of UVB can also cause him to close his eyes. Do you have the exact model of the UVB bulb?
 
Awesome. Thank you so much for your information.

He has both eyes shut. And I think it was both eyes at the same time. However, I must mention that when watching him drink water for the first time tonight his eyes seemed to have opened a little.

I don't think I can see a vet tomorrow but definitely Thursday.

His UVB light bulb is a Zoo Med Reptisun 5.0 UVB 13watt tropical light.
 
Well he is drinking, this is good.

Although his health and well being are very very important, I want you to relax a little bit, He is drinking, so he has not given up the fight...

I have a few more questions to ask.

"Supplements - I made a recent purchase of 25 crickets from PetSmart and they were all dusted."

Did you dust them?

If so, did you use a pure calcium dust?

I would heavily recommend dusting his main meals with pure calcium dust, and then whilst young make one day a vitamin day.

Watering - I use a spray bottle to water/mist him. I do it in the morning and in the night for about 30 seconds or so. I saw him drink for the first time tonight.

You saw him drink, they are awesome when they drink, however, might I recommend a medium sized dripper to provide an almost constant supply of fresh water, as for the water.

I assume your using tap water?

Fecal Description - His feces look normal. Black/brown-ish with with top. Tonight though they looked a bit liquidy but not completely. He has not been tested

The fact he is "taking shits" is good is he still regular in that department?

If he is this woudl be a sign he is still eating :)

Are there any uric traces with his poops?

full


I need the color of the none brown bit please :)



History - He was bought online from First Choice Reptiles and it took him 4 days to get to my place even though I paid for overnight shipping. Horrible service.

Handling - About 3 days ago I started handling for 10 minutes or so a day, so he can get used to me.

I am no expert, but I can make assumptions, they can be wrong, and would like a expert to validate me here.

Sounds to me like the poor fella had quite a stressful time getting to you, and the handling might have caused even more stress, I would ease off on handling him, wait for him to show signs of recovery, and to be honest, I would still be inclined to chat to a vet, and despite the cost if you can have one do a home visit, so as not to unnecessarily stress the fella any more.

As for lighting, it is possible that it is too strong/close, consider making sure he has a hot spot that is between 85 - 90 deg C but if possible do this whilst moving the light source away by about 6"/15cm or getting a lower powered bulb.
 
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