Help help help!

[DDHackett]

Here is some recommended information to include when asking for help in the health clinic forum. By providing this information, you will receive more accurate and beneficial responses. It might not be necessary to answer all these questions, but the more you provide the better. Please remember that even the most knowledgeable person can only guess at what your problem may be. Only an experienced reptile veterinarian who can directly examine your animal can give a true diagnosis of your chameleon's health.


Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon, Female, about 6-7 months. 5 months
Handling - Not very often. I only take her out every couple of days.
Feeding - About 10 crickets a day around 7:30 AM, and yes I gut load. Potatoes and carrots. With some flukers orange cubes
Supplements - I dust once a week with Fluker's Calcium w/ Vit D
Watering - I use a regular dripper that drips down her leaves. I mist twice a day. once in the AM and once in the afternoon. Yes she drinks
Fecal Description - Brown solid droppings w/ white. No, never tested for parasites
History - She was recently boarded while I went on vacation. Very trusting friends. They own several reptiles and chameleons.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Open Screen 24x24x48. When she was boarded I had her in a 16x16x30.
Lighting - Reptiglo 5.0 UVB with a 75W UVA/UVB basking lamp. On at 7:30 and off around 8:30PM
Temperature - Basking is around 90 and cage floor is about 75. Lowest overnight temp is 72
Humidity - Humidity is room humidity at 50%. I mist with warm water to keep her environment moist.
Plants - Yes, Schefflera
Placement - On a table and yes a room fan. Top of the cage is nearly 6 ft from the floor
Location - Georgia

Current Problem - She is hanging upside down and seems very weak. She just lets me pick her up and she closes her eyes. She normally hisses and tries to bite....now nothing. She fell from her branch in her large cage not too long ago, so I relocated her to the smaller one again. Could the larger cage be too much for her? On top of the move to and from a different location in the car. I have her under a 75W red basking lamp at the moment to bring her temp up. She seems to like it very much in the smaller cage. ANY HELP would be greatly appreciated.

She has been doing great up until we took this vacation. I feel like she is extremely stressed. Is there anything I can do to bring her stress level down? cover her cage? Quiet room where nobody is going? She is in my bedroom, but activity is minimal.

 

[kinyonga]

We need more information. Please answer the questions in the how to ask for help thread at the top of the health section.

 

[DDHackett]

Updated info....please help! I don't want to lose her. I almost took her to an emergency vet, but knew it would stress her more.....this is all I have until my experts open shop in the AM.

 

[ataraxia]

pictures of the chameleon and set up? Depending on how you have the uvb set up and the amount of calcium given. Id suspect your animal has mbd. Need pictures to confirm.

Im interested in knowing what type of 75 watt uvb bulb you have. Could you list the brand and type?

 

[DDHackett]

She doesn't seem to be getting any better. She doesn't even want to lift herself up. She is more comfortable hanging from two limbs and a tail. The other half of her body just hangs.

I moved her from her larger cage earlier and she is now in the smaller one. The red lamp is a 50W.

I apologize. It is a 50W Zoo Med Basking Lamp.

 

[ataraxia]

Just from the pictures she does not seem to have mbd but doesnt mean she doesnt have the start of. She looks a little young but looks quite plump and possibly gravid. Can you take her to a vet?

1. Id try putting her in some moist sand about 12 inches or so deep. In her condition i doubt she will dig but you never know.

2. At the moment if she is gravid. She needs liquid caclium and natural sunlight if your weather permits is a great thing. if your weather is not permitting a new good uvb source is a must. This will help her to a. have the strength to lay eggs. b. have the necessary contractions for laying eggs c. recover from the loss of these nutrients during egg production.

3. If she is egg bound at the moment a vet is your only option and savior.

Id remove the red lamp asap and replace it with a normal house bulb.

EDIT: I dont see any uvb source on the cage?

 

[DDHackett]

It wasn't a 75W that was my mistake. The Red lamp is a 50W and her normal basking lamp is a 50W Zoo Med Basking Lamp that puts off UVB rays.

 

[ataraxia]

ok, i edited my post with some new questions and info.

 

[DDHackett]

Is there anything I can feel for to see if she is gravid? I am def taking her to a vet in the AM!! I put her into a paper towel lined box with some of her foliage so she will not fall from her vine tonight. Is that good for her until tomorrow?

 

[DDHackett]

There is a Exo Terra 5.0 UVB bulb that I had on the larger cage. I normally turn this off at night. Should I leave it on overnight?

 

[Elizadolots]

I don't think any of the Zoomed "basking" lamps provide UVB...If you can get her out into the sun tomorrow, do it. If you can get her to a vet, do it.

Also, just because it's good: hydrate, hydrate, hydrate!

 

[ataraxia]

No lights are needed at night. If your temps fall below 50 degrees i would use a ceramic heat emmiter in this instance.

Not going to lie, you can palpate her but it is very hard to feel them sometimes. So even if you dont feel any doesnt mean there isnt any :/ do you see any lumps on the abdomen near her rear legs?

 

[DDHackett]

Here is how she looks now. Colors are changing, she is acting like she doesn't know how to work her legs anymore. She just reaches for a branch and keeps reaching for it, when she can clearly grab it.

 

[ataraxia]

She does have mbd.

Edit: A vet is going to help you in many ways atm. Make sure he or she gets an xray to be sure she doesnt have eggs on top of all this.

Id suggest changing your uvb source to a linear tube style uvb and implementing liquid caclium and natural sunlight if your weather permits while she is in recovery from mbd .

 

[DDHackett]

Since this has been going on for a day or so....what are the chances I can get her to the vet in the AM and get her what she needs...and be normal again?

How can you tell?

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

I agree, your chameleon without a doubt has metabolic bone disease sadly.

Metabolic Bone Disease is unfortunately a common disease of reptiles due to lack of dietary calcium, imbalanced nutrition and/or lack of UVB rays. Just one of these things can cause serious disease even if the other aspects are all present. UVB rays are needed in reptiles to produce Vitamin D3 in the skin, which is necessary to absorb calcium from the food. Without UVB rays from either unfiltered sunlight or a UVB producing bulb then your chameleon cannot absorb the calcium you are giving it. If you are not providing an adequate level of calcium in the diet then no amount of UVB will make up for it. Too high levels of phosphorus in the diet will interfere with calcium absorption so even with good calcium levels and UVB the body is still not getting enough. To compensate for inadequate calcium absorption the body will pull calcium directly out of the bones so there is enough calcium for critical functions like muscle movement and metabolism. On x-rays the bones may not even show up in the end stages because there is so little calcium left. MBD affected animals (doesn't just happen to reptiles) can have bones break just walking because they are so weak. MBD eventually kills them because the body needs calcium for many bodily processes. Signs of MBD include stunted growth, bent legs bones, fractures of those bones (double elbows or knees), grabbing at its own legs, tongue not shooting as far, a soft jaw, the mouth doesn’t close all the way, etc. This doesn't happen in a day. This has been going on for months.

The orange cubes are terrible for nutrition and you are not using anything for gutloading that has any substantial amount of calcium. The cubes are only good for hydration. Yes they keep the crickets happy but they have no nutrients that your chameleon needs, and now she is suffering for it. Starting immediately you will need to start gutloading with fresh vegetables. Here is some information on it: https://www.chameleonforums.com/help-help-help-93883/help-help-help-93883/blogs...utloading.html. Mustard greens, turnip greens, dandelion leaves, collard greens should be your biggest components right now.

Next to address is supplementation. You will need a powdered calcium without phosphorus or D3 to dust (lightly coat) her crickets with. This should be used at every single feeding. You can also get a concentrated liquid calcium glubionate to use in addition to the powder. She is in a severe state of lacking calcium so that is the key to getting her better! Using the calcium with d3 that often can cause toxicity, so you need a plain calcium.

The bulb must actually say that it has UVB because they have to be specially made for that. If they dont specifically say there is UVB, it's because there isn't. Remember the UVB bulb has to be changed every 6 months because even if it's still shining it stops giving off UVB. Natural sun if it's warm enough is even better than UVB bulbs if you can get her in it.

The bones are so soft that they're bending like that under her weight. The bones can actually break if they are weak enough. She may always have some deformities from it even if you take action now to stop it. If she is developing eggs she is stripping all of the calcium she has out of her bones to make eggs. This makes it extremely dangerous for her to try to lay the eggs, she desperately needs calcium ASAP. A vet may need to give injectable calcium to get her back on track. But only a vet can determine if she needs that.

I'm sorry your little one has MBD, but you're in the right place now and we'll help you get back on track!

 

[ataraxia]

She will always have the bowed limbs from here on out but you can stop the progress. She can regain use of her limbs and act normal with your dedication.

see pic. From what you describe are classic symptoms. Banana shaped limbs are just one visual deformities this disease has.

 

[DDHackett]

That's just it......Her bulbs are UVB and I dust with calcium w/ D3. This is the first sign I have ever seen that she is having an issue. Once again...I am taking her to the vet in the morning and will update from there. Thank you for all the help.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Dusting with calcium once a week is not enough and not gutloading with anything calcium-rich will lead to this even with good UVB. She has not been getting enough calcium to support her own growth demands and now that she's probably working on eggs she's stripped away what little she had. This doesn't develop over a day, or even a week or two. It's something that has been developing for months now. It's just gotten to the point that she can't compensate anymore. It can be stopped though, and she can go on to a normal life after treatment if it is started immediately. Good luck at the vet tomorrow! Let us know how it goes.

 

[ataraxia]

Please take in what has been said here to help the future of your companion.

Good luck at the vets. Let us know how everything goes